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Codename Entertainment Forums > Crusaders of the Lost Idols > Feature Requests/Suggestions > Idol DEBUFF?!?!
| Idol DEBUFF?!?!
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6 Posts |
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- Posted May 16th 2017 at 8:02 AM
Indomitable1I'm not sure this is the right forum for this and I didn't see any other posts about it.
Are you kidding me with this idol debuff garbage??? Why? Is anyone or anything being damaged by the rapid resets? In lieu of that, it just seems that you're just trying to force people to play the game the way you want them to play it and eliminating a very efficient way to gain idols. |
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859 Posts |
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- Posted May 16th 2017 at 8:25 AM
AndreasLast Edited May 16th 2017 at 8:27 AM Oh well, where to start.
Why? Simply because CNE thought what you might call an efficient way to gain idols was a not foreseen exploit by users who used massive gold buffs and extremely short runs - supported by external software in a lot of cases - to gain more idols than anticipated. Is anyone damaged? Of course there is! For one, players who don't have the same chance and are playing without extra software like auto clickers or macros. CNE itself too since this huge increase (20,000 idols per day was common, if I'm not wrong, the numbers went up to 60,000 idols per day) lead to a lot of players demanding new talents to spend their unused idols for which might not be foreseen with the T4 talents and the general direction the game should take from CNE's perspective. Also, one might argue that the short and quick runs put an unexpected load on CNE's server landscape, doing real damage business-wise. CNE is forcing people to play the game the way CNE wants them to? Well, of course! This is their game and their design. Ideally CNE would have foreseen the massive exploitability with the design of the legendary crafting. CNE has nerfed a few legendary effects because of that, and CNE has corrected a mistake to prevent misuse of a feature. I don't see anything wrong with that. Using your argument, I hope, you're not complaining against traffic rules, preventing you from going over red traffic lights. Of course, the evil government is forcing you to drive according to their rules, even though your car can go through the crossroads absolutely fine and it would be so efficient for you. And my final note on this: You are the first I have seen giving negative feedback on this. Everyone else was positive and thankful, CNE took this step. So, calling it garbage might come over as a bit strange here, don't you think? |
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5565 Posts |
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- Posted May 16th 2017 at 8:26 AM
Raymondit's written up extensively in the change log that you apparently don't know about. click options in game and then change log in there
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781 Posts |
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- Posted May 16th 2017 at 9:51 AM
AnimenutWhen I first saw the debuff, I thought "Huh? Why?" then took all of 2 seconds to think and answer that question. It is easy enough to see it and have a kneejerk "OMFG LET ME PLAY MY WAY" reaction, but if you dedicate more than a single firing neuron to the topic, it makes a lot of sense. 30 minutes? The ONLY people that would be affected by that time limit are cheaters. Anyone who plays legitimately - even newcomers with much shorter run lengths - wouldn't be harmed by this length.
Andreas nailed it. This forum has no "Thumbs up" feature, so take my "Thumbs up" in spirit. |
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6 Posts |
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- Posted May 16th 2017 at 6:29 PM
Indomitable1Wow...touchy, touchy. So first, let me say that in re-reading my initial post, it was more inflammatory than I meant it to be, so I apologize for that. But, I think my point remains.
Is anything being damaged by the rapid rests? I don't know a lot about how these games run. More specifically, I don't know how much happens server side vs how much happens client side. If it is putting significant extra stress on the servers to the point where players can't connect, then it makes sense from a business perspective. But if the runs and idol tabulation is all done client side with the totals just being uploaded, then it shouldn't be an issue...I would think. Now, to address the above responses: Animenut - With the release of legendary items, a lot of people who have been playing this game for a while can reset WAY before 30 mins. It's hilarious that you call it "cheating." There was a time before the release of any talents when doing short runs was the optimal way to gain idols, so the idea of doing the shortest run possible is nothing new; legendaries have just taken the short runs to, what some may call, an extreme. Raymond - First thing I did was to look at the change log. I really wouldn't call it an "extensive" explanation. It explains what it does, but doesn't really explain the reasoning behind it. As I said, optimizing idol gains via short runs is nothing new. Andreas - 1. Like animenut, calling the short runs an "exploit" or "misuse" is hilarious. Again, the idea of using short runs to optimize idol gain has been around for quite a while; legendaries have just made the "short runs" much shorter. 2. The idea anyONE is harmed by this is silly. This is not a PVP or multiplayer game; any one person's idol count is completely irrelevant to anyone else's. Everyone has access to macros and autoclickers if they want. If you choose not to use one, so be it; I do. 3. For the record, I've never complained about new talents, although I know some have. I don't think CNE is catering this game to those with the top 5% or 10% of idols. I realize I'm likely farther ahead of where most players are, so I've found other things to enjoy about the game, like trying optimize my efficiency at gaining idols. I noticed the bump in idols/hr associated with short runs a couple of weeks ago and was looking forward to trying it out when I had the time. 4. The load on the servers is a valid point, it's exactly what I was alluding to in my original post, and what I asked about at the beginning of this one. 5. You're absolutely right...this is CNE's game and they can do what they want. Can't disagree with that. However, the entry in the change log said they'd be looking for feedback. Well, this is mine. 6. Your analogy of traffic lights is just terrible. You run a red light, you risk injuring or killing others. As I already said, aside from potential server issues, no other users are harmed by how fast or slow idols are gained. |
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781 Posts |
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- Posted May 16th 2017 at 8:51 PM
Animenut1) The fact that you're THIS upset that the developers want you to play the game the right way is just pathetic. Have you ever played a fighting game? Marvel Versus Capcom comes to mind. As a balancing mechanic, combos lose effectiveness as they continue, causing each hit to deal less and less damage so that it is more difficult to completely destroy an opponent with a single, overly-long combo. People don't complain "WTF SCREW DEVELOPERS IF I CAN DO A LONG COMBO AND BEAT AN OPPONENT IN THAT ONE COMBO I SHOULDN'T BE PENALIZED FOR MY SKILL!!!" because they know why that limitation is in the game.
2) "But Anime, your debate is not relevant because someone in that situation is actually being harmed by it if there was no limitation." You really think that? If people use an exploit like rapid-resetting, then even if we ignore the huge strain on the servers, it still means the developers are forced to now put resources into considering how to approach that different playstyle when creating new content. It is an idle game. You're SUPPOSED to leave it alone for long periods at a time. It is DESIGNED for that. Rapid resetting is antithetical to the way the game is meant to be played, which means if people are doing that, the devs need to keep that in mind for future updates. Balancing becomes an issue because the people who play the right way would find value in certain crusaders and skill, which the rapid-resetters play the exact opposite way and would value completely differently-balanced types of abilities. Continually creating content to fit both of these playstyles is immensely difficult, if not impossible. If they had to spend time and effort trying to figure out ways to balance crusaders for quick resets, that is time not spent on thinking and implementing new ideas that work better for how the game is MEANT to be played. If they have to pick one side to favor, obviously they are going to favor the side that applies to the players who play the game the way it is intended to be played. 3) "But Anime, they don't HAVE to spend any resources considering the quick resetters because we'll just work with whatever happens to released normally. They can keep releasing for normal players and we'll take whatever happens to be useful for us." Then you're admitting to not only being in the minority, but also that you're playing the game the opposite of how it is meant to be played. Therefor, it should not surprise you that the devs do not want you playing that way. Personally, I have every reason to support the idea of rapid-resetting for faster idol gain since I'm at 2mil idols and have all talents maxed, and I'm basically just doing runs out of habit and "preparation" to instantly max out new talents, yet I still do not rapid-reset because long runs lead to more silver/jeweled chest, meaning more crafting materials that go toward pushing legendary levels. Much like how paragon levels work in Diablo 3, how there is no real "end" to ever reach, and each level beyond 800 is just adding a drop into an ocean, but people still gind out more and more levels by the hundreds just to add those small drops anyway. It is a slow grind for small snippets of more strength over long periods of time, but that's pretty much the point of any endless game's meta. 4) "But Anime, your argument can also apply to the slow grind of idols, not just crafting materials and trinkets." Yes, but only the latter is how the game is intended to be played by the devs, as it is an idle game designed to run for long periods or time. It all comes back around to design. 5) Your feedback is appreciated, but "appreciated" is not a promise that it will be applied. Just as you have a right to offer your feedback, others have a right to offer their feedback about your feedback. 6) (See point #2) |
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859 Posts |
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- Posted May 17th 2017 at 12:14 AM
AndreasIndomitable1, apology accepted. I myself might not have chosen the best words, I'm sorry about that, too.
To your points: 1, sure, there might be a gap between exploits and efficiency. I myself think it is an exploit since it isn't part of CNE's idea of how fast idols should be gained by newer or veteran players. And yes, you're right, there have been short runs before. But if my memory serves me right, you gained a lot less idols per individual run than with the gold buffs included. Especially with the multiplicative gold buffs. What was the single run worth? About 300 idols in 2 minutes, give or take? I'm ok with active players gaining those numbers without external support. Running those a lot of times in a row requires stamina and dedication. But setting up a macro and let it run by itself this way isn't active gameplay from my perspective. It is using a loophole or what I would call exploitation. There might be a better word for it, but I usually don't speak English :-) Harming active players by preventing this loophole wasn't CNE's intention, I think. But given that players publicly spread the information and bragged about it, CNE might have thought to take the risk of negative feedback by honest players. 2, you are right, without any connection between players in game there is no hard connection between my progress and yours. However, from my point of view, CNE has an interest to present the game to newer and more experienced players in the same way. From my point of view, newer players are more motivated to stay with the game if the chances to close the gap between them and more experienced players if only they invest time. Learning that all they can do is to run software and not outthink others is probably a big dump, there. As well as for veteran players. Again, only my perspective here, but seeing players passing the idol count you have got within a year in a few weeks or months is demotivating. I admire players who honestly aren't impacted by this, but I understand each and everyone who quits because - what's the point - newer campaigns are only getting harder and the point of playing them gets only farther away since the top 1% of players is increasing their idol count in clinical ways. 3, I guess, this is where we differ as well. I think CNE tries to have all players in mind in their design stage. I doubt that there will be a T4-talent which costs less than a couple of thousands of idols at its first stage with ramping up quite significantly. So, CNE's goal from my perspective is that nobody can get all those talents within the next few months. As for your last sentence: I'm not sure, anything major has changed for you. Even with the debuff, there is still a lot to figure out again. When do you reset? Right at the 30 minutes mark or would it make sense to use the buff you get for higher levels again. If the goal remains to reset as early as possible, the question might be how to time it so it fits in your daily planning. It's the same stuff, only with less idols gained. As you wrote, getting more or less idols doesn't really do any harm. 4, cool :-) 5, you're right. And CNE has always listened to player's feedback. More or less passionate feedback that is. I guess I was overlooking that fact because I got sidetracked by all the !s and ?s. Sorry about that, again. 6, Of course it is terrible, that was part of the intent I chose it :-) I just wanted to point out that what some people might call restriction of freedom has quite a good reason if the perspective is changed. And no, I don't want to compare what I would call harming of motivation versus the risks people take when they choose to run over red traffic lights. Cheers! |
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164 Posts |
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- Posted May 21st 2017 at 7:19 PM
MisterC8It would be possible to nerf legendary items again (at least give them diminishing returns) for upcoming T4 updates. It needs a lot of revamp of all Legendary Items (different levels but values cost twice per level though.)
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