yeah.....2 day missions are a real buzzkill when you know the piece will be common/common/common and so on.

When they do weekend events (which I realize is few and far between), they usually include event characters so that's one way to get the equipment you need.

The one year anniversary of the missions is coming up soon, at the end of October. Personally, I would be surprised if they do not restart the missions from the beginning and run through them again, allowing you to get event chests and any crusaders you missed.

right. sorry.

"this is hardly fine tuning but changing the game significantly" How? It is just adding event crusaders to the list of characters that can receive benefits from normal chests. How is that a SIGNIFICANT change? It is simply applying the same mechanics to unlocked crusaders as standard ones.

"the game is perfectly playable without older event crusaders being on all epic" There is a difference between "playable" and "usable". What's the point in getting an event crusader if it is so thoroughly outclassed by a crusader you already have because the gear and enchantments make the event crusader pale in comparison?

"speaking about all epic: Being easily able to get event crusaders on all epic seems unfair, since it can take months or nearly years for players to get the initial 20 crusaders on all epic in the first place" When did I ever mention "easy"? If anything, it would be harder than the original crusaders because pre-events it would be a 1-in-20 chance of getting an item on the crusader you want, but as more and more event crusaders become available, that ratio widens while keeping the same "drop chances" for each tier of gear. It wouldn't be "easy". No easier than the original crusaders since the drop rates for each tier would remain the same.

"the gear missions are not low a help as you might think. I got a rare gear item on larry and didn't have any gear on him before. So, you most likely won't need 12 gear missions for a specific crusader" I haven't had that luck. Each time I do one of those missions, the related crusader only goes up one tier. So if he/she had no gear, then it would get a single common item. If it had one common, it would either get a second common or the previous common would go up to an uncommon. I've done about 5 of those missions and haven't seen an alternate outcome.

1.1) You're talking about tradition and coding, not actual scale. With all due possible respect that can be stated with a sentence like this, even the loading screen says "The game is currently in beta, so formulas, abilities, and features may change dramatically from day to day. Please don't hate us." My suggested change is not SIGNIFICANT, but even if it was, the game itself warns players that such dramatic changes are a very real possibility.

1.2) "To take this example, I currently only send Event crusaders on EP gathering missions, since all the others are well over 300 and get their EPs through opening of silver and jewel chests." Yeah, that method would change. As games do when new mechanics are introduced. I haven't seen people complain about the talents that cut the idol-per-500-levels in half and add bonus idols per areas achieved. Those are enormous changes that suddenly boost idol farming from increments of about 100 to being over 1000 per reset. Technically, for argument's sake, that would "favor newcomers to the game since older players had to work hard to get all their idols" and yet I haven't seen complaints despite that actually being a SIGNIFICANT change to gameplay.

2.1)"Don't run crusader missions then if you think the result is outclassed crusaders." Which defeats the purpose of having crusader missions at all. If they are going to exist, make them useful. That one sentence sounds immensely elitist of you.

2.2) "Are event crusaders better than the regular ones? Sure, they are." As a general fact, but not during specific application. Full-rare normals tend to be better than no-gear event crusaders. Hence my point.

2.3) "Newer event crusaders outclass older ones, regularly. So, even if you gear up the first event crusaders, you might still keep the newer ones in place, though." That is pure assumption, as well as being subject to each players' individual play styles. Each event crusader has different and unique abilities, and as such, an older event crusader might be more useful to someone who has more use for it's abilities than they would for newer event crusaders. However, that is just me rebutting your statement directly. More accurately, it is just flat out irrelevant because this topic isn't about which event crusaders are better. It is about having introduced a mechanic that has no real benefit. The topic is "Why let players get old event crusaders if they cannot compete with fully geared normals?" not "Why use old event crusaders when newer ones are better?" The latter is entirely up to player choice, whereas the former is entirely about giving the player that choice. One of the rules of good game design is "The player should never feel like they are obligated to play the game exactly the way the developers intended. A player should never feel limited unless limitation fits the theme of the game as a whole. A good game will let the player come up with their own solutions to the obstacle they are given, even if the outcome is the same. A game should allow the player to choose between 'run or fly' instead of 'sink or swim'."

3.1) "I would be perfectly fine if it meant that I need a year or more to get those kinds of crusaders on all-epic level." When I say "all-epic", it is just an example. I've been playing for about 6 months and not all of my normal crusaders are all-epic. A fair few of them are, but more are split between rare and epic. However, waiting a YEAR for an event crusader you unlocked to be useful is absurd. The whole point of unlocking an event crusader is to have a generally-better option than the originals. If unlocked through missions, it would make sense to have to put in more effort to build the crusader up (as opposed to being around for the original event and getting event chests), but the method of waiting for gear missions is just too slow to be practical. The pseudo-punishment of getting event crusaders through missions is that the player cannot benefit from the event chests that would quickly equip that crusader, but the gear mission method is just too long. Not to mention that if an event crusader is a DPS-type, then it needs enchantments to stand up to the normal crusaders. Lots of them. With the talent that boosts effectiveness of enchantments - and even WITH the cross-sharing between crusaders in the same bench slot being buffed plenty - ill-equipped event crusaders still end up having lower DPS than normals. Best case scenario with a ton of talent buffs for cross-sharing is the event crusader barely hits the level of the normal in terms of enchantment DPS bonus, but without the gear benefits.

3.2) "There are a lot of games out there, which also have events or similar stuff. But in these games, you don't have the slightest chance to get this kind of older content." Which is exactly why I took the time to make my praises known about the willingness to even have the function of getting old event crusaders. At no point do I want to come off as unappreciative of the mechanic. However, appreciation should not neglect good game design. The feature is very forgiving and generous, this is true, but there is also no point in having it if the results end up being useless. I in no way expect event crusaders to be INSTANTLY useful, but the gear missions method just takes too long, even for an idle game. I wouldn't mind if event crusader gear had a lower drop rate than normal crusaders from normal chests. If rare normal gear has a 5% chance to drop from silver chests and event rare gear had a 2% chance, that would be fine as long as it was actually possible to get the gear from the chests.

>>>"The pseudo-punishment of getting event crusaders through missions is that the player cannot benefit from the event chests that would quickly equip that crusader, but the gear mission method is just too long."

So you solution is to punish the long term players that have played all the events by decreasing their chance to get gear for the original 20? Granted I have all of the current Crusaders, but I have used event Crusaders with empty slots or common gear in my formation.

I have some original Crusader that have only just became viable options and have been completely off my radar for a long time. But that is what makes this game great. You are constantly evolving your formation as you obtain new gear.

As for waiting for gear missions, they come about a week apart. I don't know about you but a guaranteed chance at an upgraded gear for an Event Crusader every week is very generous of CNE. And I absolutely love it.

I'd love to see event crusader equipment in the mix of normal silver and jeweled chests. (Event chests would still need to be event-crusader-specific to give them a decent chance of filling their slots). And to see the original crusaders included in the mix for gear-upgrade missions.

- - -

Early on, when playing, every single silver chest contains something useful - and every gear is a wonderful gift! But, after a month or two of diligent playing we get to the point where openning even jeweled chests doesn't raise one's hopes much - because the likeihood of getting gear is small, the likelihood of getting gear better than what you've got is even smaller, and the likelihood that you will get an epic to replace one of the last 20 or so you still need (for original crusaders) is smaller yet. [I've been playing only since March, but can't remember the last time i improved my original crusader gear, despite opening a lot of jeweled chests - the only ones that COULD improve my original crusader gear at this point].

Giving chests the possibility of having gear (and ep) to EVERY owned crusader will return some of the excitement of opening chests to the veteran players; it will make it conceivable that event crusaders gained via mission will be geared up within the life-time of the player (especially if events are not going to be rerun with previous event crusaders made available again); and the fact that this would further reduce the chance of getting those last epics for original crusaders is fixed by adding them to the gear-upgrade missions (which would also, for the ec's, hoepfully be more likley to be raising uncommons to rares rather than empty slots to commons).

Since the gear would be spread around a larger number of crusaders, ep-missions would still be useful to speeding event crusaders to the 200 mark.

(Possibly the chance of gear appearing would need to be slightly raised in proportion to the number of crusaders in the pool.)

For new players, the mechanics would be the same. By the time they start to get event crusaders (and begin enlarging the pool), most of their originals will be fairly well-equipped (and if there is some doubt to this, perhaps having event crusader items in normal chests should be something that only begins once one has gained a certain number of EC's and/or their first EC via a mission).

"decreasing their chance to get gear for the original 20?" Suggests that you, or another long-term player, would not already have been fully-equipped. You're basically asking "If there is even a 1% chance, then we have to treat it like an absolute certainty!!" It was dumb when Bruce said it and it's dumb when you say it.

"And what does it matter to you if they are? I will play my game my way" By all means, play your way. If "your way" involves staying in the overwhelming minority, then don't expect the game to cater to you. Seriously, how many long-term players DON'T have their originals well-equipped?

"I will play my game my way, not yours and you shouldn't look down on other players that do just that." I'm not looking down on players that play differently than I do. I'm saying (for, what, the 5th time by now?) that the likelihood of someone playing the game for MONTHS and not having their originals well-equipped is slim-to-none. That isn't "looking down", that is fact. The only way it would even be possible is if someone had made the account months ago, but never really comes to check on the game, in which case this topic wouldn't apply to someone clearly not that invested in the game.

"If all you have left is new Epics why would you want the pool to get bigger?" Have you ever done major farming in a non-idle-game? For example, material farming in an RPG. Pretty much anyone who 100% completes games regularly (I would raise my hand if such a thing was visible here) will tell you that having a 1% chance to get 3 different items you need per kill is better than having a 2% chance at getting a single item you need per kill. When you're farming literally hundreds - even thousands - of material items of different types, it is best to have the potential to get a little of a few things you need than a slightly better chance at getting much fewer things you need. In the context of this game, it would decrease the chances of getting epic gear on an original crusader, but adding the chance to get epic gear on ECs would balance that out; slightly less chance to get gear on a greater number of crusaders.

"@Azaryah, makes a perfectly valid point." You have been disagreeing with me on everything, and yet agree with Azaryah, who agreed with me on nearly every point. This suggests that you're not actually contesting my suggestions, but rather contesting me directly.

"If the chests were opened to all the Crusaders on a player's bench then the only way to make it fair would be to have the 20 original added to the gear mission pool." How would that be fair? It would be almost as useless as unlocking ECs without decent gear because - as has been mentioned multiple times before - the originals likely have mostly-rare gear at least, and after only a few gear missions, originals would be at full-epic and the missions would become obsolete. The originals would be added to the mission pool only to have no purpose being there not too long afterward.

"Either that or have a small chance a chest drop will upgrade into a random event chest." I suggested this already in a different form: "I wouldn't mind if event crusader gear had a lower drop rate than normal crusaders from normal chests. If rare normal gear has a 5% chance to drop from silver chests and event rare gear had a 2% chance, that would be fine as long as it was actually possible to get the gear from the chests." It has the same overall effect as turning into an event chest without needing to add even more code to the game to make another potential chest transformation.

"Not everyone resets right away." When I started the game, it took me TWO MONTHS to do my first reset. I had reached about level....200-ish? And even with Storm Rider only giving 10% every 8 hours, I managed to get my bonus from that up to slightly over 1000%. I didn't know how resets worked, so I didn't know what I would lose or gain, so I put it off for wicked long. I finally did, realized there was nothing to lose, and got nearly all the original crusaders full-rare within a month after about 2 months of pure stagnation because I am completely insane and have a borderline-clinical obsession with grinding in video games. 3 months, and 2 of those were spent with nearly nothing accomplished, and yet when I actually began trying (for lack of prior knowledge of HOW to try) I geared up my crusaders in a hurry. Only took me a month, and I'm dedicated, but even if we double that to 2 months, that's 2 months of silver chests and resets, and possibly objectives/rubies. There is NO excuse - even in an idle game - for a "long-term player" to not have their originals well-equipped. 3 months, at MAX, and that would require a player to not be invested in the game, which would also mean that they likely aren't too concerned with changes in game mechanics due to their passive interest in the game. Your entire point in this is that long-term players without well-equipped originals (which is far-fetched already) would be offended by decreased odds for rares/epics for their originals with the addition of ECs, but if someone is a long-term player without decent original gear, then they aren't invested enough to care about such technical changes, so you're wrong on both fronts.

"If you played all the events most if not all of the ECs are rare or better as well. In fact most ECs are better equipped than the default Crusaders." I have ECs from both events and missions, and while the ones I get from events are more likely to hold their own in formations because of the gear they get from the events they come from, none of the ECs are automatically better than the originals in the same slot. For example...

-Despite having Larry the Leprechaun, I still use Detective Kaine because his "A-Hah!" ability gives a MUCH more overwhelming gold boost. Larry has the ability to buff DPS as well, but that use is better filled by other crusaders when Kaine buffs gold so overwhelmingly more, especially if you happened to get the golden epic gold buff for Kaine.

-Despite having Draco, I still used Hermit as a main DPS'er because not enough royal crusaders work in a good DPS formation to effectively boost Draco's DPS high enough to compete with a 400/400/40 all-epic Hermit, let alone a Hermit with two golden epics.

-Despite having Rayna with semi-decent gear and gearless Roboturkey, I still use Princess because, with a golden epic, she overall boosts 100% DPS with her skills and a normal epic boosts another 40%, all consistently, compared to Roboturkey's random element and Rayna's healing factor which is better covered by a sub-vanguard Khouri.

-Despite having Broot, I still use Jason entirely for his gold buff, as neither Jason nor Broot tend to have much of a use otherwise. Broot is a tank that is outclassed by a full-rare Thalia, much less a full-EPIC Thalia.

-Despite having Robosanta, I still use Gold Panda because his gear puts him LEAGUES beyond ungeared Santa for gold buffing.

-The event crusaders I will use in a formation (depending on size and shape) are...

-Veronica, because she buffs slightly less than full-rare/epic Jim but has a good burst-DPS skill.

-President, because a golden epic-buffed "Act of Congress" skill makes things go SO MUCH FASTER and he gives about the same decent gold buff as Natalie and craps all over an ungeared Jack.

-Bubba, because when properly placed, his golden epic-buffed "Synchronized Swimming" skill gives a truly insane amount of DPS which puts Artaxes - my previous favorite crusader - to utter SHAME, as well as a fairly decent potential gold buff.

-Montana James, because he buffs my current best DPS-dealer - Emo Werewolf - works well with Princess, and gives a second layer of burst-DPS like Veronica.

-Littlefoot, ENTIRELY because of her "Growing Up" ability, but even then, I have to momentarily switch out to Thalia before using Storm Rider to get the maximum bonus from it due to his gear buffing the ability more than Littlefoot's.

Note that the ECs I use are all ones I got from actual events, and therefor have decent gear to put them at a level that can compete with the originals, while the crusaders I do NOT use are the ones I got from missions because they are gearless and cannot even touch the originals' usefulness.

"After all they "likely have mostly-rare gear at least, and after only a few gear missions, [Event Crusaders] would be at full-epic and the missions would become obsolete." I guess that would be fair, certainly would spark cries of outrage though. See I agreed with you on something." I was talking about original crusaders having upper-tier gear already and not being able to get as much use out of gear missions because of already being well-geared, but still, good to see that you DO have the capacity to agree with me on something. Even if it was a misunderstood statement, at least you CAN agree, so kudos to at least that much. Anyway, no, I do not think gear missions should go away. Gear missions are specifically meant to help gear up event crusaders gotten from missions because mission ECs would have no gear and have no way of getting gear outside of weekend events, and so the gear missions act as a way to build up gear on ECs that would otherwise be useless without the gear (see the examples of my own "Geared versus ungeared usefulness" experience above).

#2 was my original point, but #4 and #6 are also perfectly viable options. I think warps affecting mission times is an interesting idea, but a bit broken since it would be pretty easy for long-time players with an overabundance of warps to break that system. Granted, abuse would cause their warp reserves to dry up pretty fast, but still, seems a bit too easy to abuse while the option would be available.