Email: Password:
Codename Entertainment
[Focused Discussion] Let's Talk Balance

793 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 10th 2014 at 4:44 PM
Justin Stocks (CNE Dev)
Hi folks!

Many of you have had a chance to play around with the Alpha for a couple of weeks now, so this is a good time to discuss the general game balance. I don't have anything in particular that I want to focus on in this thread for now, but in general I want to talk about the extremes: battles that seem too easy, battles that seem too hard, skills that seem too powerful, skills that seem too weak, and so on.

Some quick notes before we start:
- We recently implemented a new algorithm for the Speed stat, so players should notice more occurrences of you, your companions, or enemies attacking multiple times in a row. We're still playing around with this stat to make it more interesting and compelling to focus equipment stats and enchants on.
- Since we're giving out a lot of free Shardium in the alpha, it's fairly easy to keep you and your companion's equipment fully enchanted and gemmed. Keep in mind that the free play experience once the game goes live will be slightly more difficult, so if everything seems just slightly too easy, that's somewhat intended, since everyone in the alpha is getting a premium play experience.

Okay! That's all I have to say for now! Bring on the feedback!

70 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 13th 2014 at 4:42 AM
mythago
Speed seems a little better but still feels like I am playing second fiddle to my companions during fights. Teddy has a speed of 165 compared to 124 for Lilnth and Jareq which often allows him to attack twice for every attack player character makes. This is nearly double the character speed of 95 on my level 27 ranger with fully enchanted gear and player speed 17 researched at the university. This speed differential is possibly the single most frustrating thing in the game right now, as it makes it difficult to build to larger attacks as I watch my companions kill all the mobs with an occasion attack thrown in by my character.

70 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 13th 2014 at 4:44 AM
mythago
This is not counting multiple attacks in a row by companions or player character. However, Teddy is the only one of my companions that I have seen consistently getting multiple attacks as well. Speed feels really unbalanced right now in my opinion

70 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 13th 2014 at 5:42 AM
Last Edited October 13th 2014 at 6:02 AM
mythago
I would strongly disagree with the idea that things are "slightly too easy" at this point and time especially with the recent speed changes. The final battles of areas are significantly more difficult than the rest of the area and out of balance for the recommended level. This was first noticed with the final fights of Battle the Goblin Leader and Defeat the Untouched forces. Unfortunately I cannot find my notes complete notes on those two battles for my character's and companion's stats

Defeat the Untouched Forces (recommended 14-15). Level 18 ranger with level 17 companions and fully equipped gear with the captain doing 3400+ critical hits.

Burn the Tent companion mission (recommended level 21-22). Final fight has 8 scorpions that hit on fully enchanted gear for nearly 1600 points at level 26 plus a larger scorpion that hits for 1800 points. When you add critical hits that do anywhere from 3200 to 3800, this fight is unbalanced. University health and all defenses are at 14 for character and 12 for companions. The only way this was defeated was due to a lucky critical on a AOE attack on the first group of scorpions.

Search the Thief Camp final battle (recommended level 23-24). Level 27 ranger and companions, battle normally lasts two rounds, with companions or players often killed during first round. The rangers are hitting for 4200 with 8000+ critical hits, warriors are hitting for 1700 with 3400+ critical hits and wizard is hitting for 4000 with 8000+ critical hits. In most attempts not a single opponent is killed and due to speed nerf, player character has died during fights without even getting a single attack. All university buffs for player at 17, all university buffs for companions at 15, fully enchanted gear.

When you consider the extremely low enchant success percentages and the fact I have generously used shardium to not only ensure my companion's gear is fully enchanted but to reset the timer (along with the VIP item) for the university to allow training, these battles which are extremely difficult now will become extremely frustrating to free players who do not have the luxury of having these items.

As additional information (be advised I am playing with difference skill spends and my ranger may show different stats if you look at him), here are the breakdowns of how the stats break down between companions at level 27 and how the player characters is significantly lower in nearly every stat:

Jareq: Str 286, Int 112, Dex 122, End 494, Spd 124, Luck 116, Atk 1302, AP 731, Arm 616, MR 442, HP 10267, Crit 696

Lilinth: Str 117, Int 220, Dex 288, End 388, Spd 124, Luck 116, Atk 1176, AP 1485, Arm 593, MR 688, HP 8150, Crit 708

Teddy: Str 112, Int 386, Dex 112, End 390, Spd 165, Luck 225, Atk 726, AP 1604, Arm 399, MR 673, HP 8150, Crit 1350

Player: Str 81, Int 83, Dex 409, End 287, Spd 95, Luck 107, Atk 960, AP 1002, Arm 861, MR, 641, HP 9053, Crit 861

70 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 13th 2014 at 8:17 AM
mythago
A little more on companion stats versus player stats. Companion base speed goes up with level while player character does not. Jareq and Lilinth both got a +4 speed increase from level 27 to 28, with Teddy getting a +5 increase. Player character base speed did not change. Only base stats increase for character were Dexterity, Endurance and luck while companions seem to get an across the board increase to all stats. Although I do realize that there is more flexibility in gearing your character, it does seem to encourage min/maxing such as the way wizards are simply maxing out auto attack in the arena. As a character levels it feels I am falling further and further behind my companions in effectiveness.

679 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 13th 2014 at 10:42 AM
jpl77
When you say wizards are using auto attack, what are you talking about?

70 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 13th 2014 at 1:31 PM
mythago
A common build is to put all points into Staff Lore which is also the default or auto attack and then just stack endurance and intelligence. Add a couple of AP shards and you have a perfect arena build.

21 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 13th 2014 at 4:48 PM
PhailRaptor
@Jason -- I believe that refers to the pinkish purple swirly that gets fired when you don't select an attack action. The skill point for it is called Staff Lore I believe.

679 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 14th 2014 at 5:15 AM
jpl77
Staff lore is the skill that increase the wizard damage during wizard attacks. Staff lore also increases AP, arcane for magic attacks. Ok, so I reread the description, and it does state 'autoattack', but for me, that autoattack is the generic attack if you don't select a target and if you don't choose to use a magic attack.

Ranger also has 'autoattack' and during arrow attacks you will see 2 damage numbers appear. Wizards don't have 2 attacks per round, but by appearance, rangers do.

679 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 14th 2014 at 5:18 AM
jpl77
I would like to see a balance with the AI. It was discussed before that companion AI was kept low, but it needs to be improved. At a minimum the companions should be smart enough, (in our current 3v3), that if one enemy is within a one shoot kill, the next companion who is up next in the battle sequence they MUST attack that enemy.

I hate wasting my attacks to kill an opponent who has 100 HP left and my 4000 damage attack is now lost instead of going to the opponent who has 10k HP.

793 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 14th 2014 at 9:18 AM
Justin Stocks (CNE Dev)
A couple of quick replies to start the morning before I duck into a meeting:

1) In the next push we're increasing the base speed stat by ~2/level for players. Unfortunately this isn't retroactive, so it will only apply to new characters. This will bring the player up to the same speed as companions and enemies at a similar level, assuming no speed augments on either side. At that point, doubling your speed will allow you to get 2 attacks in for every 1 of your enemies/companions. Speed is very similar to critical hit/luck in that respect.

2) We're in the process of doing another balance pass through all of the missions. This will bring the recommended/difficulty levels up/down to where we intend them to be, and impose a minimum level requirement on all mission areas.

3) Rangers show two damage numbers because they do both physical and magical damage with every attack. Each of these numbers is roughly half of a single warrior or wizard damage number.

4) Companion targeting is completely random, but the major "Leadership" (previously "Friendly") skill levels can be used to exert a certain amount of control. At 5 skill points, they'll attack your focus target (the one you've clicked) 50% of the time (actually a bit higher, since if they choose not to attack your focus target, they may still randomly pick it), and that number goes up to 60% at 10 points and 70% at 15 points. These skills also increase your companion damage. We haven't seen many people playing with them yet, but we think they're quite powerful.

70 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 15th 2014 at 4:24 AM
mythago
Thank you for the update. I am glad to hear the speed issue is being addressed and I look forward to trying it out. A pity the speed cannot be fixed for earlier characters but I will spin up a warrior and try it out.

112 Posts
Link to post - Posted October 15th 2014 at 1:20 PM
Carolyn Schwartz
More balance points...I understand why you zeroed out the rage when entering the arena, but it eliminated one of the few ways to beat higher level teams. I'm playing in the arena for bug research and hoping for good loot. It's getting dull. It's worse with my character who is in the top 5% but only level 28.
I haven't tried the friendly skill thing because I have no idea how to do that. I only see it in the tavern.
Log in to reply to this thread!