Email: Password:
Codename Entertainment
Questions to the devs in regards to some new Crusader decisions

130 Posts
Link to post - Posted March 5th 2017 at 7:06 AM
Last Edited March 5th 2017 at 7:08 AM
Azamagon
So, I'm very curious about a few new rather perplexing Crusader design decisions the devs seem to have done as of late. I'll just get straight to the point:


1) No "seat specialties" anymore?
---------------------------------
What I mean by this is probably the most apparent with the new crusader Squiggles the Clown. His other seat buddies (Reginald, Siri and Boggins) all had one thing in common: They all grant Royal Command, and give strong DPS-buffs to certain tags (Royals, Females and Animals).

But now we have Squiggles there, who is a DPSer instead. Not only that, but Snickette, who is in the same seat as Sarah, have gotten the "tag-buffer" (for Humans) niche instead. It seems kind of... swapped...
Is this intentional, or is it an oversight of some kind?

If it is intentional, is it to give "wasted" EPs on Support Crusaders a value across the seat or something? If so, that seems to be fighting the symptoms, instead of the actual disease (the worthlessness of EPs on non-DPSers).

I have an idea that can both fix that EP-problem, as well as the "Level 200+ every 25 levels = 4x dps" abilities in one go:
Make it so learning the "200/25" ability also grants Global DPS, based on the Crusaders EPs (like, 50 EPs = 1% global DPS)


2) No active abilities anymore?
-------------------------------
A whole bunch of new Crusaders can't learn their seat's active ability. Namely:
* Petra can't learn Alchemy
* Katie can't learn Gold-o-Rama
* Squiggles can't learn Royal Command

Why is this? If you have a problem with squeezing them into their kit, why not make it so learning the active ability ALSO grants them a passive ability (which should be a thing for ALL Crusaders, not just the above 3, as that'd make learning the active useful even in farming runs). For example, Petra's "Daily Bread" could teach her the Alchemy ability, along with passively granting her a 150% selfDPS boost like now. Stuff like that. You are a bunch of very creative devs, you could easily make that work in a logical manner :)


Some answers to these question (and wether my speculations are complete bogus or not, heh) would be much appreciated! :)

859 Posts
Link to post - Posted March 5th 2017 at 11:02 AM
Andreas
I'm not a dev nor do I write on behalf on CNE, but a few things come to mind, reading your post:

- I believe we are in a stage with Crusaders as a game where hardly any decisions on Tags, Abilities or upgrades of new crusaders are unintentional. This is valid for both of your two segments.

- From my perspective, EPs are not wasted for any crusader in the same slot as potential main DPS-crusaders or potential main DPS crusaders themselves. Meaning, Snickette might not be your first choice as female DPS crusader, but her EP helps Sarah's EP-level if you rely on that sort of thing. Upgrading the talent to max, every one EP of Snickette is Sarah's EP, too. Also, having some objectives restrictions in mind, I think I remember some occasions where my main DPS dealer wasn't a crusader who is intended as a DPS-crusader. So, even there EPs might still have potential from my point of view.

- to your suggestion: What is your biggest EP-level for a single slot of crusaders? At a first glance, this would be a massive increase in DPS which is unlikely to be wanted after the huge boost possible through crafting at the moment or near future. Besides the unanswered question if your suggestion is valid for all crusaders, all crusaders not on missions or only crusaders in your formation (do crusaders on missions share their EP then, though? They shouldn't since they are on a mission and don't participate in the current objective, right?)

- specifically to your second segment: I'ld rather have these three not activating an ability but having another, better ability instead. Because for me, I hardly ever use these abilities. For Free Plays I never have used them at all. So, whenever they are needed, I think it is pretty much ok to swap said crusader out of formation and bring one in who can activate the ability. If they aren't available due to objective's restrictions, well, logically they weren't available before then, either, right? I also don't believe CNE would consider allowing two abilities for one at the moment.

130 Posts
Link to post - Posted March 5th 2017 at 2:47 PM
Azamagon
@Andreas
I'm not really sure you understood some of my questions

1) I meant more, why abandon something consistent and logical? For example, slot 1 is always about clicking, slot 7 always has Firestorm etc. But...
Slot 14 was always about goldfinding and gold-o-rama, up until Katie.
Slot 19 was always about Alchemy, up until Petra.
Slot 17 was always about Royal Command and a strong niche-buffing, up until Squiggles This newfound inconsistency irks me, a lot.

2) This is exactly what I meant. The EPs gained for the Crusaders in slot 17 have always been "wasted" (since they are not DPSers). But now they added Squiggles there, a DPSer, probably to reduce the "waste", since EPs are being shared.
But this is so inconsistent and the completely wrong way of handling it.

First, many slots have 4 consistent Crusaders in them. Slot 11 is ALWAYS a healer, no DPSer to be found to "solve" anything there. Slot 14 is always a goldfinder, no DPSer to be found either. Because those slots have an expected theme. Now they completely broke a certain one, slot 17.

Second, adding a DPSer to an otherwise non-DPSing slot is the wrong way to fix the EP-problem. EPs should be dealt with DIRECTLY, so they are worthwhile to gain on any Crusader, not just indirectly by randomly adding an unfitting, unexpected and inconsistent DPSer in that slot.

3) I have the most (shared) EP at about 700 or so (i spread out my EPs, to make missions easier to complete). That'd just leave that Crusader with a 14% Global DPS boost, if i were to use it in the formation. Nothing insane, really.

So, yeah, what I meant is that they would give a global DPS based on their total shared EPs, but only if they are used in the formation, ofc.
And yes, their EPs would share even when other slotted Crusaders are on missions. Otherwise putting them in missions would be kind of stupid...

For example:
If you have Bush Whacker with 1000 EPs (600 on himself, 400 given due to shared slot Crusaders), that would mean, if you have him in the formation, he'd contribute with 20% global DPS. Regardless if his slot buddies are on missions.
I thought it was a rather simple and easy to understand idea >_>

Besides, numbers can be tweaked. It could even have diminshing returns, to prevent making EPs too good at dps-supporting.

4) Umm... that would be rather odd. Not to mention, highly inconsistent.
Also, as you say, you hardly ever use them on free play, which is EXACTLY why I'd toss a passive onto them, then you'd want them in free play too!
For example, if you are using Katie (let's hypothetically say she is your currently best goldgainer in slot 14), you'd level up Group Hug, right? Since it gives 15% global DPS. Why not make that slot BOTH unlock the 15% global DPS and the Gold-o-rama ability? Then you'd level it up regardless wether you use the active or not.

Sure, you could say that improving the abilities would probably be better. And I partially agreed. If the abilities were more useful, even on freeplays, then we'd use them more too, I guess. But some abilities are a little hard to "fix", imo, like Click-o-rama.

Fixing the active abilities would be one (very difficult) way. Giving them added passives is another, and simpler one at that.

And why would they never let Crusaders gain two things from one ability? Especially so on the active ability point, which many possibly could skip in most runs (due to often not being needed).

130 Posts
Link to post - Posted March 5th 2017 at 3:04 PM
Azamagon
Also, I'd like to add (for clarity), how I see the different seat specializations:

Note: The seats can give other stuff too, but they always give:
1 - Clickstuff and Click-o-Rama
2 - Rowbuffing
3 - Supernatural DPSer
4 - Flexible role (Except Sasha, but she is insanely outdated)
5 - Male DPSer
6 - Gold-ability and Magnify
7 - Firestorm
8 - Goldgear (This slot could also become the "progression"-slot, so Billy is not 100% supreme)
9 - Goldgear and Tankrelated stuff (Except Pete, but he is also a bit outdated)
10 - Savage Strikes, DPSbuffers
11 - Healers, DPSbuffers
12 - Damage reduction
13 - Females (Or, it had an "Proud/Arrogant/Greedy DPSer" kind of theme too, which would still fit if Snickette and Squiggles swapped seats)
14 - Goldgear, Gold-abiliy and Gold-o-rama (Except for Katie)
15 - ... Actually, got no idea what these guys are about. It seemed to be about DPS though, until Val showed up.
16 - Death-related support
17 - Royal Command and strong niche-buffers (Except for Squiggles)
18 - Storm Rider
19 - Alchemy (Except for Petra. If you say niche is Alchemy and/or Splash-damage, she still fits there though)
20 - Resetting DPSers
21 - Flexible effects, depending on Proximity (Exterminator = DPSer, or goldfinder. Good Witch = Healer, or DPSbuffer)
22 - Isolation based support (Ilsa is a DPSer who feeds on others' DPS, similar to RoboTurkey, so she is actually more a Support)
23 - Goldgear and DPSsupport

So, the inconsistencies are growing more and more, as time passes. Either I'm just a picky fellow (always have been, so I guess I still am!), or the devs seem to be either intentionally or unintentionally ignoring the old seat specialisations.

I just wanna know...

Why?

46 Posts
Link to post - Posted March 6th 2017 at 3:46 PM
Muljo Stpho
Changes from what had been normal for a seat have stuck out at me as well (and I do also find it weird when they don't have the seat's active ability), but really... I think a lot of it is just the devs trying to be more creative as they try to come up with new ways to differentiate new crusaders from old crusaders. So a new option buffs in a different direction from others in their seat, a new option gets an asynchronous attack (ie "200% of DPS every 5 seconds"), a new option fills a different role from others in their seat, and so on. The more they've done already, the more outlandish the new ideas need to be.

(Outside of the piece of gold find gear seat 8 has been far from consistent about anything, by the way. Natalie requires teamwork with her brother to maximize both their DPS. Jack is a tank and a reactive buffer. Billy is able to speed up area completion. Karl allows you to ignore tank enemies by splitting the DPS to hit the other enemies. That one piece of gear is the only common thread.)

On the topic of changing active abilities to something new, they do have some cases where a crusader brings a new quirk to the ability at least, especially now with legendary gear able to add new perks to everybody. (Or maybe it's all legendary effects tweaking actives in different ways?) I think Merci has a legendary effect to boost the amount of healing from Alchemy while Bat Billionaire has a legendary effect to add a DPS boost while Alchemy is active. There's Thalia adding a gold boost to Storm Rider but sticking to moderate boosts in the ability's DPS boost while Littlefoot just flat out supercharges the DPS boost and adds to the cooldown time as the tradeoff for being able to get so much of a boost all at once. Boggins adds gold find based on enemies frozen by Royal Command while Reginald adds a DPS boost against frozen enemies.

130 Posts
Link to post - Posted March 7th 2017 at 10:48 AM
Last Edited March 7th 2017 at 10:49 AM
Azamagon
@Muljo Stpho

1) I understand the whole "create something new" perspective, but why does it have to be in such an inconsistent manner? I dunno if it's something mentally wrong with me, but I REALLY hate when consistent things change so radically.

2) But seat 8 is at least consistent due to that. There has been no expected theme besides their goldgear. And that's good.
However, I think it could be nice to solidify the identity of each seat, so we know more or less what to expect. For Seat 8 I'd love it if it always brought (even if minor) something that helped speeding up progression. Billy already has it. Jack's Knock Knock and Karl's Lace Up (which are entirely useless abilities right now) could be simple "spawnspeed" abilities. Could do something (albeit weaker?) for Natalie too.

And if anything, I overall don't mind if some expectations change. But when a seat known for having an active ability has a Crusader which does NOT bring said active ability... that feels very, very wrong somehow.
That's why Val, a Healer/Support, being in her seat which is otherwise just full of DPSers, doesn't bother me at all. But Katie/Squiggles/Petra really do.

3) Why did you have to bring that up? T_T
I also hate that the legendaries FURTHER cement that abilities are meant to be used with very specific Crusaders for optimal use of that ability (i hate optimum-active-ability-swapping, because it's tedious and also kind of hard to pull off due to high-level lagging, which is ironic considering that's when you start to need them...). Yeah, I truly and utterly hate pidegonholing!

Now, I don't mind some forced pidgeonholing here and there, for example, a campaign forcing me to use only males? Fine, I'd have to work out on my own how I'd like to deal with such a campaign. But when I have a choice on who to use for a specific active ability? Well, I DON'T have a choice. Royal Command is gonna be 100% King Reginald's or Boggin's active ability now. Using it with Siri will now ALWAYS be a waste (unless you can't use Reg/Bog due to a specific campaign restriction, but that's completely besides the point).

I mean, I have suggested before that gear that affect active abilities should work more like trinkets, meaning, they benefit for the ability no matter which Crusader from that seat you use. For example, what if:
Reginald reduced cooldown of Royal Command
+ Siri increased the duration of Royal Command
+ Boggins increased the damage taken of enemies paused by Royal Command.
+ If you activate it with either Crusader, all 3 benefits happen at once!
That way, there is no need to swap Crusaders for optimal active ability use + you can be more varied with their gear in regards to what they do towards active abilities (instead of all being the boring same).

With Legendaries it's even worse though, because it is further inconsistent in that it is only for certain Crusaders:
* Only Gold Panda has an interaction with Gold-o-Rama, all the others (Katie obviously not, being incapable of it) do not.
* Reginald and Siri affect RC, but Siri does not and Squiggles don't even have the RC-ability...
* Thalia has 2 Legendaries affecting SR, Littlefoot and Frosty has 1 each and I dunno about Cindy (prolly not, because who cares about consistency anyway!)
* Actually, no there is no Legendary bonus for Merci's Alchemy (that's just his normal gear bonus). Bat has one though. Petra ofc doesn't due to not having the ability.

I mean, I really like this game. Has a very nice design and creative abilities etc. But it's getting more and more inconsistent with these kind of things, and it really saddens me, because I know I have NO say whatsoever in regards to discussing on how I'd like them to change :(

5565 Posts
Link to post - Posted March 7th 2017 at 3:00 PM
Raymond
inconsostent? who's tp say that spot x is 'supposed' to be always this or that?
Log in to reply to this thread!