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Codename Entertainment
DPS versus Gold bonus trade off

2 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 23rd 2016 at 12:42 AM
Steve
Without having to dig through all the various threads and calculations and put a lot of not-so-fun work into playing a game, can someone tell me what the trade off is in terms of DPS vs Gold bonus is?

In other words, I have place in my formation for a crusader with 2x +15% DPS all or a +25% Gold.

At some point, the whole point of DPS is to reach new levels where more gold drops but that means there is a point where more gold dropped is better than more DPS.

I assume it's something like 5:1 or more in favor of DPS over gold given the exponential rise in gold dropped on subsequent levels verses a linear increase on a single given level but once a run hits a wall where the next increment of DPS is not enough to clear the next level, sacrificing a bit of DPS for more gold could be more efficient of offline or AFK grinding.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

-Steve

134 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 23rd 2016 at 1:57 AM
thedude
In the beginning of a run, gold will always be better. When you are just cruising along instakilling everything, extra DPS will not get you anywhere faster, but a gold bonus will allow you to level faster and instakill for longer. In the mid game, it kind of depends on the situation and the crusader. Panda/Robosanta and Kaine/Monkey are usually more advantageous than extra DPS just because their gold boost is so big if used properly.

My base gold bonus from all of my idols and trinkets is 264K%. In my current formation, I have a gold bonus of 7.01M%. That is about 25 times higher than base levels. It would take more than one or two levels to even out with that, and in the late game it usually takes more than one or two 15% DPS buffs to get even one extra level.

Testing to find your balance point is not all that hard to do. Set up a DPS heavy formation, get your main DPSer to, say, level 1000, and let it hit a wall. Let it sit at that level for a minute and check "gold gained in last minute" in the stats tab. Then change your weakest DPS buffer for your strongest Gold buffer, see if you get knocked back, wait a minute and check gold gained again. Repeat until satisfied. Takes 30 min tops.

27 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 23rd 2016 at 4:56 AM
DoomMantia
You always want to have max gold for as long as you're instakilling, that's for sure. This implies that the only formation you'll ever use when you're just farming Idols on Free Play is a max gold formation. If you don't instakill with the DPS you have on your max gold formation, reset.

As for missions, due to the way Chests and Warps work, only Queen Siri's 25% gold is low enough to warrant considering taking her out in formations where your main DPSer isn't female, and maybe Jason if you don't have at least his Rare that gives 50% gold. The others are too good to take out. Panda/RoboSanta and Kaine/Monkey are out of the question because they give way too much gold, Pete has gold gear and two buffs that add up to 65%, Natalie has gold gear and great DPS, and Jack has gold gear and is a tank that increases your DPS by a lot if he's being attacked (and if you open chests or use warps while your DPS is increased because he's being attacked, they give you a lot more gold; the more monsters are attacking Jack at that precise moment, the more gold you receive).

The math would be: if you lose 25% gold bonus, your DPS should increase by at least 34% to compensate. It's easier to see with fractions: 25% is 1/4 of your gold, so you're left with 3/4 of your gold drops, so to compensate your DPS should increase by at least 4/3, the reciprocal fraction of 3/4. You can see that taking out a character that gives 50% gold bonus, or 1/2 or your gold drops, would need to be compensated by doubling your DPS, which is almost impossible to do by replacing a single crusader in a full formation.

The only moment when you'd want to trade your gold bonus for extra DPS is when you're less than 15 levels away from completing an objective (or less than 10 if you don't want to use buffs) and you're not instakilling anymore. That's when save slots become useful. Have a save slot with a max gold formation and another with a formation that has the absolute max DPS you can possibly get, without any regard whatsoever about gold. Use this second formation to kill your way through the last levels, using DPS buffs and Splash damage buffs if necessary.

Optionally, you can also add the BushWacker to that max DPS formation and use Critical Click and Syphon Power buffs to get an even higher DPS (much higher) if you click.

59 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 23rd 2016 at 6:38 AM
Jason M. Bryant
When you're instakilling, neither gold nor DPS matter. The massive amount of gold you're making now will be insignificant 20 levels later, since prices increase geometrically.

27 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 23rd 2016 at 2:21 PM
DoomMantia
Gold does matter, because you get levels faster/earlier, so you should always go for max gold formations if you're farming on Free Play.

2 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 24th 2016 at 2:26 AM
Steve
I agree that while instakilling you should have every and any +%GP in group. Once you reach the point where your main DPS needs more GP than you collect in 4 areas to kill the boss however, you are left with a grind and it's not clear if +DPS or +%GP is strictly better.

I decided to waste some Sunday morning looking at it. The first issue is that GP does not scale in a easily understandable way. By charting the max GP per second (both by dividing amount earned by time during instakills and by calculating GP dropped per creature and average rate creatures spawn) I found the following pattern:

Area | % Increase from last area
1 | +0% (Same GPS as the last boss)
2 | +133% (or about x2.3 of the last area)
3 | +139%
4 | +56%
5 | +5%

Now, these numbers are all based on the first 25 stages and not that accurate but what is interesting is the difference in GPS between the same area in different zones. It's always close to x 9.25. In other 'words' the GPS of Zone 3 - Area 1 (Z1A1) = the GPS of Zone 2 Area 1 (Z2A1) * 9.25.

Not really that helpful if you need to grind to get GP but interesting to know.

Now, understanding the variation in GPS, you also need to understand the variation in DPS per area... this is even harder to measure and I certainly did a poor job but I'm only looking for ball park anyway as by the time you need these calculations you are dealing with a 4x difference in your DPS. A more accurate measure would probably be possible by finding the DPS needed to instakill for each stage. then also finding the DPS needed to instakill the boss...

Area | % Increase from last area
1 | -75% (The next stage is much easier than the boss)
2 | +150%
3 | +100%
4 | +100%
5 | +250%

This equates to the following assuming the last boss needed 100 units of DPS to kill and you earned 100 GPS during the boss area.
Area | DPS needed | GPS earned
0 | 100 | 100
1 | 25 | 100
2 | 62.5 | 233
3 | 125 | 557
4 | 250 | 869
5 | 875 | 912

Given this (probably flawed math) you should be able to clear area 4 with a single 25 level upgrade of your main DPS unit but will need AT LEAST 50 levels to clear the next boss (every 3 or 4 zones will need 75 levels or additional DPS contributions from other party members).

I suspect the numbers may change in higher levels (the curve may steepen) but don't have time to examine this anymore.

Latter if I have time, I'll test the numbers on latter levels then try to figure out what the trade off is between +%DPS and +%GP.
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