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Optimal layout for Crusaders

1 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 26th 2015 at 6:24 PM
Dachende
Is there an optimal layout for crusaders once all are unlocked ?
I know some crusaders give bonuses to others, in front or behind them.

Has anyone done the math to figure out what the best layout is ?

Cheers :D

8 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 27th 2015 at 11:14 AM
Brandon Bacon Sarnie Smith
It kind of appears like it depends on the accessories you gain from the treasure chests! not everyone gets the same some one persons top formation could be another persons bottom formation, if that makes sense, it's just about playing about with your own team and finding out what goes better where :-)

37 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 28th 2015 at 9:35 AM
Last Edited July 28th 2015 at 9:54 AM
Lloyd_Majere
There are a few guidelines though, I've found.

The Princess has 4 "All Crusaders +10% DPS" abilities that seem to be unparalleled by any other Crusader. So although she's the weakest in my formation, she'll always be there. I place her in an area with 0 boosts, though.

Nate Dragon and Natalie Dragon's shared skill for each other boosts Nate's power immensely. So although it doesn't do much for Natalie, together they make quite a massive amount of DPS. So I use both of them as well.

Sasha, Khouri, and Jim are my next staples. Sasha stays in the third column to give the most boosts to the four in the back. Khouri stays in the middle for the same reason, boosting the six around him. And Jim stays in the back row, boosting the other three even more.

So with that in mind, my formation by default looks like this

1
----5
2------8
----6-----10
3------9
----7
4

10 is The Princess
6 is Khouri
5 or 7 is Sasha
1 or 4 is Jim

0 DPS Boost positions: 10
1 DPS Boost positions: 5, 7, 8, 9
2 DPS Boost positions: 1, 4 (minus one from one position since Jim doesn't boost himself.)
3 DPS Boost positions: 2, 3

SO. This just leaves me with 6 areas to fill. But since I already know I'll be using Natalie and Nate, I can safely put Nate in position 2 or 3, and my next strongest hero in the other one. My third strongest Crusader will go into the final back row position, and Natalie and a fourth and fifth strongest Crusader will fill 5/7 (not Sasha) 8 and 9.

A couple things to keep in mind, after this:
-I personally don't use the Bushwacker - it became too difficult to keep him highly balanced in strength while keeping a strong formation.
-Because I don't click, my abilities are limited: I don't use any clicking abilities, and stick to Fire Storm (The Princess), King's Command (King Reginald), and Alchemy (Merci), all which fit nicely in my party.
-Equips will help decide who the next best Crusader is, as many equips boost All DPS.
-Khouri will be healing the two people in front of him, which may be beneficial to some. Although for most bosses, you want to be taking no losses instead.
-If you use Fire Phoenix and Thalia, they are pretty good for the positions in front of Khouri, as they both have higher HP, Thalia attracts all the mobs, and Fire Phoenix damages everyone when he dies.

This was all just from my experience. Feel free to add in yours! I'm interested in what people came up with when they did use the Bushwacker instead.

37 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 28th 2015 at 9:47 AM
Last Edited July 28th 2015 at 9:48 AM
Lloyd_Majere
Also, aside from what I described being the best for DPS, there's also money farming.

If it wasn't obvious, Gold Panda and Detective Kaine both have gold-collecting abilities, which stack when they are both in the formation. So what I tend to do is find the optimal DPS formation, then replace the two weakest non-boosters with those two (making sure Detective Kaine is in the back column!). It may send me back a couple levels DPS-wise, but the 1000%+ boost in Gold is worth it.

8 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 28th 2015 at 9:53 AM
Brandon Bacon Sarnie Smith
Forgive me if i am wrong but Khouri doesn't have any abilities for behind him or to the side of him, only infront of him and that is only a healing factor it doesn't add to dps??? thats got me confused there.
Post by Magram deleted July 28th 2015 at 10:41 AM

37 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 28th 2015 at 10:33 AM
Last Edited July 28th 2015 at 10:41 AM
Lloyd_Majere
Khouri's third ability, Koffee Potion, increases the DPS of all Crusaders next to him (on all six sides) by 35%.

11 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 28th 2015 at 10:40 AM
Last Edited July 28th 2015 at 10:41 AM
Magram
1
----5
2------8
----6-----10
3------9
----7
4

1 : Detective Kaine : money boost. Best position to maximize A-Hah!
2 : Nathalie Dragon : synergy with Nate Dragon
3 : King Reginald IV : decent DPS and The Royal (+10% all DPS)
4 : Arthaxes, the Lion : +65% DPS to all crusaders in row in front of him
5 : Nate Dragon : Just a powerhouse, no other reason
6 : Thalia, the Thunder King : decent DPS, no other reason
7 : Merci, the Mad Wizard : decent DPS and Zombie Friends? (+15% all DPS)
8 : The Princess : cannot pass on the massive DPS boost
9 : Sasha the Fierce Warrior : +40% DPS to all crusaders in row behind her
10 : Gold Panda : money boost, no other reason

Basicly, the second row form the left is where my DPS is at, beeing simultaneously boosted by Sasha and Arthaxes for +105%, not counting the global boosts they get from other positions. Kaine and Panda can be switched out for more DPS if needed, but I'm in need of cash so the trade-off is not that bad.

8 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 28th 2015 at 10:49 AM
Brandon Bacon Sarnie Smith
ohhhhh found it, i do appologise, how the hell did i miss that! now i need to re-evaluate my formation!, dang nabbit, just when i thought i had it down! lol

37 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 28th 2015 at 10:54 AM
Last Edited July 28th 2015 at 11:00 AM
Lloyd_Majere
lol, don't worry. I missed Arthaxes 65% boost until Magram up there pointed it out (thanks!). I had to add him into mine, especially since I have two of his equips (one that gives a +5% All boost).

Arthaxes might be another one of my staples, opposite of Jim in the back row. Not sure how beneficial he is though, since my third row is limited to Sasha, Khouri, and one other... But for now a boost is a boost, lol.

I also didn't notice that the Dark Gryphon reduces damage to the row in front of him. I tend to skip all skills that don't say DPS on them, lol. But with a 15%+ All boost on him, plus that skill, I'm using him now to protect my Princess (position 10) for a little extra time.

In any case, none of these altered my original post here - I'm still sticking with the basic six I outlined there, and toying with the other four and their locations in the formation.

25 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 28th 2015 at 11:00 AM
Last Edited August 11th 2015 at 3:19 PM
Sils
http://i.imgur.com/S5h3OfG.png

I've reset two times already and I've passed floor 100 on the second reset. This is a general layout from my second run-through yesterday, centered around two DPS'ers and the other characters supporting them. The layout allows Merci and Nate (in this case) to be buffed by Jim, Khouri, Artaxes, and Sasha. Recall that all these buffs apply multiplicatively, so it's ideal to stack them on the same people.

Some general notes:
- You can replace Gold Panda with Bush Whacker for tough bosses, or when you're attempting to rush to floor 100 at the final push. Otherwise, leave the Panda in.

- Your Main DPS will not remain as Merci and Nate forever. Eventually Jim, Kaine, Natalie, and Sasha will all overtake them.
-- If you have good items/enchants on the Hermit, Werewolf, or on Sarah, they too may end up as a main DPS.
--- When Jim becomes one of your top 2 DPS characters, move him into the range of Khouri's buff in place of your weakest main DPS character.
--- When Kaine overtakes Merci, swap the two. Keep Merci in the party for the 15% DPS and the skill. You'll lose some gold% off Kaine's gold passive, but his extra DPS will push you a zone further than you were before, which is better overall.
--- When Natalie overtakes Nate, swap them. Leave Nate in for the buff to Natalie and his two 10% DPS-all buffs.
--- Never move Sasha into the third row. Leave her in the second for her aura.

- Put Thalia into the party to use his skill whenever it's up. It's a small buff, but it's permanent and any extra damage can make a difference.

37 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 28th 2015 at 7:15 PM
Last Edited July 28th 2015 at 7:16 PM
Lloyd_Majere
Wow, Sils is right. Switching from my top layout to the one in that image (including the two coin makers) about doubled my DPS, even as early as stage 86 the first playthrough.

So, does that mean it's better to mass buff two people than it is to buff in general? I wonder if that's an indication of imbalance, or just a normal dominant strategy. hm...

Worth noting that Magram's formation was also a bit better than my best, but not by as much. With the two coin makers, only about 10% better (still a good chunk though). It could be easily boosted with Jim or Khouri. In any case, this formation also focuses on boosting two people in the third column.

8 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 28th 2015 at 9:57 PM
Brandon Bacon Sarnie Smith
omg! sils is spot on!, i've boosted my formation by about 50%! and realised just how good the lower characters can be when leveled higher!
this is vital info!!

25 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 29th 2015 at 12:51 PM
Sils
Glad I could help ^^

17 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 30th 2015 at 1:08 AM
Francesco Sannino
@Sils
Awesome formation! I am using something very similar, with the exception of Natalie up front and the Princess in the back row, so that Natalie's currently higher DPS would benefit more from Khouri's Koffee Potion boost than the Princess would.

I'm going to follow your advice for future swaps, thanks for the helpful tips!

57 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 30th 2015 at 9:01 AM
Koala
A problem with having Natalie up front instead of the Princess is if Natalie dies, the DPS drop is much more significant than if the Princess dies. So I prefer to have the Princess in front just in case.

41 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 30th 2015 at 9:05 AM
Karen Barello Swearingin
1
----5
2------8
----6-----10
3------9
----7
4

1: Princess
2: Detective Kaine
3: Gold Panda
4: Arthaxes, the Lion
5: Jim, the lumberjack
6: Nate Dragon
7: Merci, the wizard
8: Sasha
9: Khouri, the witch doctor
10: Natalie

This is the best set up I've found so far

37 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 30th 2015 at 9:49 AM
Last Edited July 30th 2015 at 9:51 AM
Lloyd_Majere
@Francesco and Karen, Like Sils mentioned, eventually Natalie will outpower both Nate and Merci, so it's much better to put one of them, specifically Merci, in the front position. That way Natalie gets the boosts in the second column, and neither the Princess boosts nor the Double Dragon boosts get compromised if the enemies push too far.

Though I do agree the Princess goes to the back - she's too valuable with too little damage to go anywhere else.

I've been thinking about the longer game though, and I feel like more people in our formations would eventually need to be replaced (specifically by earlier Crusaders with massive, cheaper multipliers):

1. Since basic formation tends to use both Gold Panda and Arthaxes, I wonder if/when the Emo Werewolf gets a major boost - I wonder if he could become a main powerhouse in the first column than others in the second.
2.Dark Gryphon has a +15% All , just like Merci, so eventually he'd be a better choice. Or maybe Prince Sal or King Reginald, since they both have +10% Alls.
3. The Hermit and Phoenix also might be good farther down the line, as front position fighters of course. The Phoenix's Fire Storm plus your casted Fire Storm = 75% to all enemies on the screen; useful for bosses at the cost of only one non-DPS Crusader
4. The only ones without a real use, IMO, are Jason and Thalia (unless the aggro system has some purpose I don't know about), and Sarah, who lacks any abilities related to formation or other Crusaders.

17 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 30th 2015 at 12:51 PM
Last Edited July 30th 2015 at 12:58 PM
Francesco Sannino
@Lloyd
You are right, later on replacing Merci with the Gryphon will be a very good choice, I'm going to follow your advice on it.

As for replacing other characters I don't know, after all most of the ones I have in my formation have precious DPS/gold boosts to others, so taking any of them away would require the ones I'm leaving out so far to get to *much* higher levels compared to the ones I have been using. Maybe one between Prince Sal and King Reginald could replace Nate at some point, but their personal DPS + 10% Alls would have to be better than Nate's DPS and (most importantly) the boost he gives Natalie (who's also one of the strongest characters later on).

EDIT: now that I think about it, at some point the level up cost is going to make earlier characters so stronger compared to the rest that their individual strength will eventually outweight the DPS boosts given by later characters. So I guess we'll eventually ignore even "+60% DPS to the whole row" and give priority to individual raw strength, just like Lloyd stated.

41 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 30th 2015 at 2:36 PM
Karen Barello Swearingin
@Lloyd. yeah i just got to that point. have kaine and natalie as 6 and 7, merci as 2, and nate in front