Log in to create a new thread
Codename Entertainment Forums > Shards of Titan > General Discussion > What the **** has happened to this game?
What the **** has happened to this game?
| |
886 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 8th 2015 at 6:54 PM
David Whittaker (CNE Dev)Hi MrPT,
I'm glad you are still with us and feel strongly enough to post. It is important to keep in mind we want to make a game that is fun to play just as much as you want a fun play experience! We are a small team as you can see by our staff page and we are learning a lot of how to make an RPG game as we go. We are not going to get it perfect on our first try! We are going to make mistakes! but we will correct our mistakes as we go. And we are definitely going to keep an open line of communication to our players! Making sure there are enough players around to do the multiplayer instances is definitely something we are watching. When we launched on Armor games we added the second server because many players had been vocal about having a chance to get to the top, not have to compete with players who had been playing for months. As the server has matured this is less of a concern and we are just setting up to merge the two servers back together so more top level players can MP together. I'm sorry about the reaction to the initial T1 difficulty from our community manager Erika. She was a player first and I think sometimes she forgets she isn't just a player anymore. The initial release did add some difficulty we didn't intend, and we quickly adjusted it back to where it should be. I like you suggestions on the PVP as end game content. You are absolutely right it provides a constant challenge because players are always striving to be the best! I have a lot of ideas for adding PVP elements in, and we do have a PVP element slated for after the Jungle. I can't give details but it involves Airships... You have my attention, so if you have a suggestion you really want me to hear, please let me know now. Additionally I answer all the in game tickets on a daily basis so if you want to make sure I hear an idea directly open a ticket from the help me page, it is a way to directly communicate with me. -David |
232 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 3:48 AM
AndahoLast Edited April 9th 2015 at 3:50 AM David, I thought your answers to Tsu were very good, but you have completely ignored my concerns about P2W in the game :(
Here: (page 2 of this thread) http://forum.codenameentertainment.com/?thread_id=10272&page=2#53234 (also extended to a few posts after that one) - btw, using "Link to post" on anything but page 1 in a thread, doesn't work because it doesn't contain &page=X in the generated links. |
14 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 3:59 AM
MrPTHi david, thanks for replying.
Let me try to elaborate a little on exactly where i feel things have gone wrong a little, re reading my last post things started going off in tangents, i understand you are a small team and a reason why i chose to invest and support in your game, it has great potential, excellent potential, because you are not following "the rules" of this model. The problem has been corrected with T1, unofortunately the damage was done, cant get those players back unless they want to come and have another crack. Now i think everyone loves the idea of tiered battles, solo atleast, the problem i have, and see is you have given us something unreachable at our current levels/stats. T4-6 are obviously the easy to hard ones set for when 45 is reached. All this does is break morale as something that we cannot and right now will never achieve. You have also given us some other things which are geared for after jungle release, such as crafting. We keep hearing how important it is after jungle, but w have no idea when jungle is coming, days, weeks, months, so it was just another useless update of content which doesnt impact our game at all. Although we all love new content, new content that is of 0 impact to people waiting for the big one is just seen as a waste of time. So, to get to point. My suggestion here is, keep new content real to what the game is at now not ready for tomorrow, if it has to be for tomorrow give us something that is useable. Many players have suggested fragments of useful items for crafting such as socket rod shards 5 of those craft 1 rod, you could even take it further so we can craft a rod shard with 100k lumber (yes full lumber really does wind us up that much). Maybe look at the tier system and reduce them down to a tighter bracket so T2 is as, but T3 instead of 175% is 125%, making T6 challenging but doable for those around 150k-200k BR then add further tiers after the jungle release. As for Mp, players, even after the merge players will still be selective over who goes, and thats fair enough, but for weaker and newer players right now they will really struggle to find anyone to do lower tiers with, as we get stronger and time passes this will only get worse as people dont want to lose their frags for the day. What i would like to maybe see is an auto-team feature. Instead of creating a T2 and spamming chat waiting, you add a tick box to "auto-team" then you are matched with other players looking for the same thing as they select it. That would be more useful for players looking for a team as opposed to creating one. For those creating one i would like to see an auto-post hotlink added to chat, so when a new team is formed it posts in chat "heroic T3 bounty", just the once whih when clicked adds us to that team. Hopefully both measures would speed up and streamline the process. The only other way i see a solution to accomodating weaker players would be to allow a mixed tier system. This would pose problems all in its own. But there are 2 ways. An averaging, or auto balance. By averaging players create a team choosing their tier difficulty on entry, the system then generates a battle on the average of tiers selected. powers awarded on the selected tier upon entry. By balancing, instead of making to mobs more or less difficult, you alter the player stats instead, a higher tier reduces a players armor and attack while a lower tier increases it. That way mobs remain the same, players have their tiers but still can work together. Again powers awarded on tier selected. My last, and many a players annoyance is refining. It is seen and quite frankly is extremely difficult to do as a free player once you have refined once or twice the time to do the other stats becomes long due to locking desired stats with shards. Although this gives players the option, it doesnt allow for free players to do so. What i and others would like to see is another option added to lock stats. There are a few ideas around but the 2 most popular are: Gold: Dont like gold, its too fast to generate and would have to be insanely expensive to encourage players to still use shards. Components: Again a crafting option here, frags crafted into components to lock a stat, or just a single rare dropped item, either would work. Would also be nice to upgrade a single secondary stat when you do randomly get the stat you want but its only level1 of 5 meaning you have to re roll again to try and get a better level. Hell you could go crazy and start dropping shard fragments to craft ;) Anyway, keep up the good work, but please keep new content useable and worthwhile, especially as yo have a small team time efficiency and all that. This game still has great potential, hence why the players like myself try to help even when fristrated |
232 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 4:18 AM
AndahoLast Edited April 9th 2015 at 4:32 AM MrPT, unfortunately, I believe you are incorrect about T4-6 being 'easy' at the new level cap...
Heroic missions are only available to max-level players - they are the heart of the end-game content. They are scaled to the max player level... so when we get to level 45, the heroic missions will all be level 45+ mobs. I believe it's intended design; that you need all (or close to all) epic gear upgraded to T6 to be able to complete a T6 mission... and yeah, that's a LOOOOOOONG grind! - so long it's a little off-putting :S - With T2 upgrade costing 100 frags, and T3 costing 300, I hate to imagine how much a T6 upgrade is going to cost! And nice suggestions. |
886 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 8:34 AM
David Whittaker (CNE Dev)Hi Andaho,
I did read your other post. The brotherhood tokens in the brotherhood pack are just like the HoT glyphs in terms of time for shardium. They are helpful to anyone trying to catch up, they come as a small amount in the pack with other useful items. From the way we are selling it it should be clear it is just a small boost not a "wave your credit card and get ahead" item. Although you could buy it a couple dozen times if that was your goal, but it is not a good value to use it to just get ahead, and we are not selling it that way. I'm not going to tell you those things don't have a pay to win feeling to them, but they are a necessary evil. A few extra paragon points with a pack is a very small impact item, its not like we are selling buy only better than everything in the game legendary items... Hi MrPT, We did correct the T1 difficulty as quickly as we could, I want to say it was within a few hours, but it might have been the next morning. We have to hope that players understand when new features get released they sometimes need a little tweaking before they are perfect and give us a day or two to get things in order before quiting over it. In my experience most player do give us a chance to fix things. The Tier difficulty ramp up is intended to provide a long term end game that lets you gradually increase your power by earning power fragments and upgrading your gear. It will take a significant amount of time to become powerful enough to take on the highest tiers. The possibility that seeing so many higher levels might be discouraging did occur to me, but we also looked at what games like Diablo 3 have done which provides a similar but unlimited difficulty ramp up that their players seem to be ok with. Making it easier to get groups together in multiplayer in general is a good idea. I do like the link into chat option. We are currently working on getting in the ability to invite mid instance, so if a player drops they can be replaced. Hopefully we will get that out today. The mixed tier instances sounds quite complicated to actually implement and get balanced. Unless the levels were very close averaging would result in monsters that were trivial for the high tiered players and still too difficult for the lower tiered players. Automatically changing the stats is an option still fairly complicated to get right. We do see a lot of runs being done so moving to implement something like that would only be considered after exhausting all of the other ways of making it easier to find players to mp with. I hear you about the refine locking and the slotting rods. It has always been our intention to make the obtainable in game but we haven't determined a fair way to get that in and preserve their high value. Other things seem to take priority over that discussion, but I will see about getting some additional ways in for those. -David |
11 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 9:24 AM
KeiahThe tier ramp up works well if there are A LOT of players. I mean hundreds, which new players joining the max level very often. Eventually you are going to reach a point where a new player hits 30, and has no one to do any MP content with because the servers are filled with players T4+. I don't think Diablo 3 was a good example to go against because you can literally farm the same gear solo (even if its Torment 6) as you could multiplayer with the same drop rates. Currently if you do not find people do do MP's with you far further and further behind, because there is opportunity loss that does not exist in other games. MMO's that do have player segmentation have hundreds of thousands / millions of players where you can literally find someone to do something.
Right now, pre update I was the second strongest player on server 2. Now due to missing time to move I cannot play with my friends without feeling like I am slowing their progress because they have a couple upgraded pieces but MORE importantly because I do not have the pre-requisate tiers unlocked and finding others to do so means potentially wasting MP attempts or those players just plain do not exist. As a side not making mobs hit "harder" is not compelling gameplay when not even the row system does a damn thing. It comes down to a matter of luck if you win a fight because the mob decides to hit a companion or not. Here is my biggest suggestion. Party formation. Right now warriors have the easiest damn time in the world because 90% of the mobs in the game deal physical damage. Make it so you can put a warrior in the front row and mobs have to hit them before hitting you clothies. Would kill two birds with 1 stone considering wizards are screwed on anything above t2 in a solo mission and they could use companions to tank. Would also give incentive to actually gear and gem and refine companions because you can make them tanks. Archer and Wizard mobs would remain dangerous because thy could hit anyone due to range but you could tank for companions in solo so Lilith and Freddy are worth using or hide behind Chrispth and Jareq. I really do not know why its not this way now to be honest. |
886 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 9:38 AM
David Whittaker (CNE Dev)Hi Keiah,
If it gets to the point where you can't find someone to do a t1 with because everyone is t4 and not interested in helping you then it might make sense to add some rewards for helping lower players. That way its worth doing. Party formation is something we intended to do, clearly it is more important now with the higher difficulties. I will increase the priority on it and see if it can't be put in sooner. -David |
232 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 9:40 AM
AndahoLast Edited April 9th 2015 at 9:44 AM Reading that ^^ The simple fix for it would be an incentive for high tier players to play a low tier mission once a day. - But it would have to be a better (or equal) incentive to the high tier player playing a different T4 mission.
Oh, David just beat me to it while I was typing, and just about said the same thing. |
14 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 10:28 AM
MrPTyou know what i was saying about communicating with your players, prime frigging example right now of restarting the server again and again without much warning or posting as to its going to happen, juts a 5min warning then bam 2mins later gone.
whats the friggin point |
273 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 10:30 AM
TsukasaWMThe issue, from another angle is that several players have stated they few a number of these features are P2W and pretty much every response has been "Nope". Is there a more meaningful response then our opinions aren't right?
|
886 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 10:37 AM
David Whittaker (CNE Dev)Last Edited April 9th 2015 at 10:48 AM Hi MrPT,
We let players know in chat that we are going to restart the server. The game does give you a 5 minute warning. It ended up being two restarts because it need an additional quick fix. I'm not sure what you mean by "whats the friggin point". Is the server going down for a few minutes for us to apply a patch such a huge deal? The down time was very small. Any instances being down are now automatically credited back to you, and single player missions always carry on. -David |
52 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 10:45 AM
AnnieLast Edited April 9th 2015 at 10:45 AM "Any instances being down are not automatically credited back to you"??? I thought they were now? :P
|
886 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 10:47 AM
David Whittaker (CNE Dev)Hi TsukasaWM,
The response isn't "Nope", its "not really". Anything that is sold in any game be it Energy in Bush Whacker, Hammers in EBA or even Stamina in Shards can be construed as paying to get ahead, and getting ahead can be construed as winning. So if that is how you choose to look at it you will always find yourself making the claim that anything sold other than strictly vanity items has an element of pay to win. Evaluating that element and its overall impact is the important thing to look at. Small boosts that shorten grind time are mole hills compared to the pay to win mountains that would be sale only legendary weapons etc. that some unnamed games clearly in the pay to win realm do. -David |
886 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 10:49 AM
David Whittaker (CNE Dev)Hi Annie, Oops typo!
|
52 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 11:07 AM
AnnieLast Edited April 9th 2015 at 12:16 PM :P Pheww! And hi!
I'm staying out of this discussion though... I like the challenge of higher tiers, and I really am looking forward to the time I will be able to do T5 and T6. Surely it won't be possible until after the Jungle shard comes out and is finished with. |
886 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 11:45 AM
David Whittaker (CNE Dev)Hi Annie,
If you open a support ticket I can look into it. Forums are not the best place for that sort of thing. -David |
52 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 9th 2015 at 11:47 AM
AnnieYes, sir!
|
273 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 10th 2015 at 2:56 AM
TsukasaWM"The response isn't "Nope", its "not really". Anything that is sold in any game be it Energy in Bush Whacker, Hammers in EBA or even Stamina in Shards can be construed as paying to get ahead, and getting ahead can be construed as winning. So if that is how you choose to look at it you will always find yourself making the claim that anything sold other than strictly vanity items has an element of pay to win. Evaluating that element and its overall impact is the important thing to look at. Small boosts that shorten grind time are mole hills compared to the pay to win mountains that would be sale only legendary weapons etc. that some unnamed games clearly in the pay to win realm do."
The problem is that's not really an even comparison. I can't speak for EBA since I never play it but BW2 you gain no real advantage over other players by paying for energy. There's only the leaderboards which are partly hidden away and provide nothing more then bragging rights. In SoT the leaderboards are much more obvious, and provide a stat increasing item for topping them, added to the fact that you can top multiple leaderboards at the same time. As it is right now I'd say it's pretty much impossible for a free player to ever place high on the leaderboards, let alone first. No ones saying the don't want to buy anything or spend any money. What people have an issue with is that the game started out presenting itself as a type of game where spending money wouldn't gain you an advantage over other players, and now they feel that's exactly what's happening. I've seen several ideas put out for items that wouldn't be P2W but would still be worth spending money on. I think people here are looking for a solution as opposed to just being told their opinion is wrong because both sides have a differing on what P2W is. |
886 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 10th 2015 at 10:28 AM
David Whittaker (CNE Dev)Hi TsukasaWM,
If you read back over my responses you can see that I am looking for solutions, improvements and suggestions. I made notes of many and some have even already been implemented. Obviously many of them take time and won't be in right away. I'm not here to tell your opinion is incorrect, but if you post something that isn't factually correct I fell it is fair that I correct it so that other players reading this don't have false information. "In SoT the leaderboards are much more obvious, and provide a stat increasing item for topping them, added to the fact that you can top multiple leaderboards at the same time. As it is right now I'd say it's pretty much impossible for a free player to ever place high on the leaderboards, let alone first." This is what I am talking about when I say not to make mountains out of molehills. The stat boosting items - the banners give +10 speed. A level 30 player has 500+ speed. That is an increase of 0.2%. 0.2% is almost a rounding error. Being at the top of multiple leader boards at the same time does not grant you additional bonuses as you can only equip one banner at a time. If it was a 50% bonus you would have a good argument, or even a 10% bonus, but its not. I checked the players on the top 10 of each board, lots of them are non-paying players. But even if they were all paying players is being at the top of the leaderboards the end all be all of the experience for you? There are only 20 slots on the top of each ranking and there are 1000's of players! Most players paying or not are not going to be the top. Playing the campaign, running multiplayer instances with friends, completing bounties, progressing into the Hall of Trials, leveling up your gear and become more powerful are all core elements of the game that are enjoyable with or without spending, and with or without being at the top of each ranking. As I said before we value the player experience being fair for everyone. In the interest of fairness where ever possible we try to make purchased items save time, and reduce grinding, but always be within reach of someone who invests with time and dedication. That is our design philosophy. But the results of that are still going to mean that if you spend you will get ahead, that is what you are getting as value for your spend. As I also said before the game has to support itself. So we have to balance and compromise to achieve both goals. Honestly my recommendation is run multiplayer instances with friends, complete bounties, play the campaign, progress into the Hall of Trials, level up your gear and become more powerful. Don't stress over someone having a 0.2% speed bonus for being top of the rankings, or skipping a day in the Hall of Trials. I have actually put in a ticket to put in stat locking for reforging with an item that will be winnable in multiplayer instances, I am currently thinking about 1/20 odds. I have also put in a ticket to look at making slotting rods more attainable. So I feel that I am working to keep a fair balance. -David |
273 Posts |
Link to post
- Posted April 10th 2015 at 10:56 AM
TsukasaWMAt this point I'm not really going to spend any more time debating over it, unless someone else has another point to make. End of the day we both seem to have different opinions on what P2W is, and I think we could go back and forth on this for another 50 pages and never really come to an agreement. Even if you feel it's not, even if the stats show it's not, the issue is that several players feel it is, and first impressions can go a long way. Go back into the comments and look at the number of people that gave the game a 1/5 because they saw the stamina system and never came back. Ultimately my concern is that this is going to be an on-going issue with paid items as well. I think if you're not go to change the items, you should at least try to make the paid items more subtle or transfer them over to the vip membership.
|