741 Posts

Pummel and Quick Attack are both pretty harsh physical moves with a high-accuracy rate.

The problem isn't the moves, the problem is the fact that, practically speaking, there are 2 wild types of Mystic Guardians you will generally encounter in the first few zones, and a 3 types (with Cubby) in the last areas. So practically speaking, we're fighting the same 2 or 3 Guardians over and over again, of course their moves are going to annoy you after a while.

741 Posts

^ That's not accurate.

2 pummel attacks is actually roughly equal to 1 bite.

301 Posts

Actually the way Pummel works is the first two hits, depending on your stats and what your "rolls" are vs your opponents, are the biggest hits. After the first two there can be up to three more hits but each one is weaker then the next. I have seen Pummel hit a Guardian, of equal level btw, for a total of 20 the first hit 18 the second 12 the third and 10 the fourth which is 60 points of damage. 60 vs 40 even with using something with an extra effect, won't do as much damage. For example using Thorn Prick there is the 50% chance of it happening plus it doesn't do the full level of damage that it did the first time. It's no different then using Flame if it does two more hits they are usually not that big, at least so far I haven't seen one over 10 that wasn't doing super effective damage.

301 Posts

like I said in my example the Guardian I used for Pummel, Cubby, was the same level as the Guardian I was facing, I believe it was a Mooky, and it did that damage. I'm not implying that is the damage that is always dealt using Pummel for me it was just one example that came to mind reading everything here.

Honestly if I understood Justin, I believe it was, when he sorta explained things basically there is a random number generator used for you and your opponent every turn to decide how things turn out. So it's kinda like DnD, or any other D20 system, you throw a roll to see what you do they throw a roll for saving and vice versa for the opponents move, if they don't just use Toughen or something like that. that is how it is decided if you hit miss and if you hit how bad do you hit and if you use something with a lasting effect will it hit or not.

301 Posts

I'm not sure if it works exactly like that Nate. I know using other attacks with slightly higher powers do ALOT more damage then just the two definite hits for Pummel, if you don't miss.

For example say I use Pummel with Fengal and the first two hits are 20's, it has happened, that would mean if I use Chomp then it should have a hit power of almost 50, yet to see that high for it, because it is a hit power of 10 making it 1.5 times stronger then the 4 power you say the first two hits get.

Also all you did in your breakdown was the long winded version of what I said using the D&D analogy. As I understand it when you tell the computer your move it randomly generates a number to determine if you hit or miss. If you are getting a hit that number is compared to the number for the opponents saving throw to see how badly you hit them, this is why you don't always have the exact same number of damage every time you use an attack.

Play any RPG game that shows you the rolls, NWN NWN2 SW:KOTOR SW:KOTOR2 STO heck I think even WoW(never played I haz something of a life) shows you those stats in fights among other things, and you will see what I'm talking about.

301 Posts

If a Dev would like to shed light on this then more power to them I have better things to do with my time then quibble about things that only a Dev can answer factually.

301 Posts

ALL that was said in regards to Pummel, it is in the Ability Changes thread, is as follows:

"Justin Stocks (DJArts Games)
Each Pummel hit is based on its own independent hit chance that is not affected by any buffs or debuffs. The first two hits are 100% (assuming the main accuracy check is passed), and then the last three scale down from there, with each one having a smaller chance of hitting."

It does not say each hit gets a power hit of X all it is is general information and even with the info Justin gives us here you're still wrong with your numbers because he says successive hit after the first two are less then the last, unless I'm reading you wrong here Justin and sorry if I am. Just like all RPG's from what I gather from the information given this is no different then playing any other RPG as far as how things are determined for hits and misses and what damage is incurred. So it's basically what's your dice rolls vs the opponents, only you don't roll dice the computer randomly generates numbers to determine things.

301 Posts

First, NOT biting your head off just speaking in relation to what Devs have said. I'm also trying to help keep gamers from being confused by the information being posted by someone who is not an employee of the game(For example your claim of a limit on DJ Arts Tokens had to be cleared up in the FB group today because someone read you saying it here and thought it was fact not theory). Nothing I have said in any thread has ever been implied, as far as I know, as I am right and everyone else is wrong. Which is what you have implied with all of your posts on this issue that you must be right and you just HAVE to argue because someone points out that you might not be.

Now as far as what Justin said "scale down from there" does not translate into all three are equal. Equal by definition means they are all the same. Scale down means one is smaller then the next, like those Matryoshka doll sets, Russian Nesting Dolls, that are so awesome. So with that in mind one could hit for 3 the next for 2 and the last for 1 for all you know it's not as simple of an equation as you are trying to make it. For all anyone knows the way the math on it works where after the rolls determine how many hits there are the powers are figured out after that for what hits with how much power the first two and what is left for the remaining successful hits. Now if you have some way to explain how 3 is less then 3 is less then 3 I am ALL ears. Now I only see Justin speak of accuracy check in regards to the first two hitting. With the way Justin's post is worded at least this is my understanding of what he has said.

With all of this said unless a Developer wishes to pop in and set everyone straight, definitely would be appreciated but no hurry focus on the update :D, then they are just more awesome for doing so. Otherwise I have nothing further to say on this matter because I will not continue to repeat myself or argue with someone who is NOT an employee of the company so can't know exactly how everything is coded.

93 Posts

Pummel will not work very well versus the new guardians. :)

301 Posts

Nate I've done enough hunting for threads today that I really don't care. I KNOW in the post you wrote specifically that the max limit for earning Tokens was 36. If you still care to argue go talk to the wall though because I don't care.