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Please put attacking monsters to the forefront.

18 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 28th 2017 at 4:31 PM
MrWizard
There are two general ways to play the game. Insta-kill formations and build-a-wall. This request applies to the second instance.

When a bunch of monsters accumulate against our walls the one attacking/being attacked monster is always underneath all the other monsters. This makes it impossible to see the progress of that monsters destruction.

Please put the attacking/attacked monsters to the forefront. This will make it easier to also judge how well switching in crusaders has against said monsters.

Thanks!

692 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 28th 2017 at 5:09 PM
Teschio
Don't build a wall, instakill. Much more efficient :D

Also, who's gonna pay for that wall? :P

781 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 28th 2017 at 6:33 PM
Animenut
If you're at a point where you're tanking so many monsters that it is difficult/impossible to see which monster is in front, you should have reset already. The ONLY time you should EVER tank EVER is if you're in an objective and close enough to your goal that you just need to push a few more areas, or if there is an event achievement that requires tanking enemies. Otherwise, in normal runs, monsters should basically never actually touch you. At worst - and I mean at absolute WORST - you might tank enough to get one more boss kill at the end of a run if i just happens to be sliiiightly too strong to resist without damage, but if you hit a point where a boss is able to damage you and you can't level up anymore, beat that boss and reset. You're completely wasting your time trying to push barely 5 levels after that. It is time better spent on instakilling in a fresh new run.

5565 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 28th 2017 at 6:51 PM
Raymond
people do not play 24/7 with full interaction like you.

171 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 28th 2017 at 7:46 PM
KameRose
I'll add my vote to this suggestion.

It /is/ rather annoying to be clicking on a monster and have him almost dead and have a new monster with full health walk on the field and stop right in front of him.

781 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 28th 2017 at 8:22 PM
Animenut
Raymond, what does play frequency have anything to do with it? Even while away from the game for long periods of time, a tanking formation is less profitable than a nearly-insta-kill area. Even if you have a good tank with a healer to survive 2 or 3 areas beyond where your non-tank formation can stagnate, the time it takes to kill a single tanked enemy is longer than a non-tanked enemy, and even though later areas give more gold, the quicker rate of kill in earlier areas leads to more gold over the same amount of time. 10 gold every 5 seconds for minute is 120 gold. 7 gold every 3 seconds for a minute is 140 gold. Killing enemies faster is better than killing stronger enemies slower because this game is amount killing mass amounts of monsters. So playing frequency has nothing to do with this. Tanking an area gives less gold over time than quick-kill areas.

18 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 28th 2017 at 8:58 PM
MrWizard
Please don't turn this into an tanking/don't tank discussion. I am asking for a simple usability fix. Thank you.

692 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 29th 2017 at 3:51 AM
Teschio
MrWizard, and we are telling you, this fix is irrelevant since you should not be doing that. Believe me and other experienced players like me (I almost have 3M idols), tanking is NOT the way this game is supposed to be played. Reset the moment you stop instakilling like you should, and you'll see that this proposed fix is useless.

171 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 29th 2017 at 8:22 AM
KameRose
Teshio, don't think of it as a useless fix, rather think of it as a fix that would have little to no impact unless you are tanking a couple dozen monsters at once. Which while not the most efficient thing to do is fairly fun. And when you have a few million idols why scurry around trying to squeeze out as many idols as possible?

I myself like squeezing out an extra 10-15 levels at the end of my run and when I'm bored to see how many monsters I can tank. http://prnt.sc/di2731

There is no 'right' way to play this game and this is a simple QOL request.

Of course, maybe it is the devs intent to have newer monsters cover up the damaged ones thus protecting them from click damage...

Anyway, I do find it mildly annoying, but I just look at it as another quirk of the game. Rather annoying at the time, but hilarious later. :D

781 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 29th 2017 at 11:17 AM
Animenut
Amanda, the point is that the suggestion is to fix an "issue" that is arguably not even an issue to begin with, but either way is nowhere NEARLY important enough to merit a patch. It is, at absolute most, a minimally-annoying hiccup that shouldn't be encountered to begin with. If you want to do the tanking thing, then by all means, but understand that it is not something that is considered an important part of gameplay. "Games are for fun, not everyone is aiming for perfect efficiency" is an argument for the players to have, not the developers who ARE concerned with efficiency and game balance. If you go out of your way to be inefficient and then complain that there's something annoying within that inefficiency, why should the devs bother fixing something you CHOSE to go out of your way to encounter that is not intended to be a part of normal, efficient gameplay to begin with? The devs don't need to patch you up every time you shoot yourself in the foot.

18 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 29th 2017 at 12:04 PM
MrWizard
Here is an excellent reason why I am asking for this fix. I do not have the luxury of millions or even hundreds of thousands of idols to breeze through the new crusader missions. I have enough idols to qualify to start the mission but not enough to insta-kill all the way to level 250 (or what ever the goal is) and get the new crusader. I MUST tank the last few dozen levels. These missions we can not restart as the limited number of 'Seed Spores' makes unlimited restarts impossible.

When monsters bunch up against my wall it is impossible to judge the rate of monster destruction. Sometimes I like to adjust in real time my crusader back field to try and maximize damage.

Please have pity on us newer players without the luxury of mega idols. New players who like to try and figure out the game by trying out various combinations of crusaders. Developers put in tank and healer crusaders in this game and I am trying to use them as best as I can given the resources I have.

5565 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 29th 2017 at 12:27 PM
Raymond
i agree with you, these others, mostly, don't cause they have a stick up their butt that you are playing 'wrong'.

781 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 29th 2017 at 1:03 PM
Animenut
MrWizard, I am trying to say, in as respectful a way as I know how to while still making a point, that the downside of being a newer player is that some situations just aren't possible. That is not me saying "git gud scrubs", that is me saying "This is how logic works." Does it suck that you might not be able to reasonably complete an objective and end up wasting event currency? Definitely. I will not tell you otherwise. That DOES suck. No argument from me. HOWEVER, that is just how games work. You're weaker at the start and have to accept losses when they happen until eventually you're strong enough to not need to compromise. Using tanks and healers is just for pushing a few extra areas...within reason. Or for nasty objectives that require tanks just for survival rather than progression (e.g. special monsters that scale to your DPS). There is a right and a wrong way to play. That sounds harsh, but that advice is coming from people who have been through that struggle and are trying to tell you ways to deal with the struggle. "You're playing wrong" is not an insult, it is guidance. Play smarter, not harder. Telling you "Give up on the objective, go do some normal runs, stock up on idols, talent levels, gear, etc, and try again when you're stronger" isn't belittling, it is telling you how the game works so you don't spend months slamming your head against a wall that could have just been walked around.

257 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 29th 2017 at 3:18 PM
snow
Animenut sums it up nicely.

Also, keep in mind that you are now able to recruit t2 crusaders through missions, too, so even if you can't complete the t2 objectives now you most likely will get a chance at recruiting them before the event returns in a year's time. So instead of spending a week trying to get a crusader you might instead want to focus on levelling up a bit as the next event will happen soon enough, and you will be able to tackle THAT one that much more easily...

171 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 29th 2017 at 9:32 PM
Last Edited April 29th 2017 at 9:45 PM
KameRose
There are plenty of veteran players that have been playing every day since it was released that are a far cry from 1M idols. There is no reason to tell someone elses that thier playing style is 'wrong'. And saying that an issue that only occurs when you push up against a wall isn't an real issue b/c pushing against a wall is not a smart way to play, well that is rather narrow minded.

That being said I am a chronic FPer and have a few million idols. I have not seen anyone say anything that actually indicates that this is a non-issue.(besides me saying that this could actually be an intended function) I have only seen some players voicing thier opinion that tanking is not a good way to play. No one is saying that tanking is an efficient way to play, rather what happens when when one does tank. Whether you are tanking b/c you are new, trying to unlock a new 'sader, unlock a new talent tier, pass an objective, get an achievement, or just for fun and to amuse yourself when you have millions idols is irrelevant.

781 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 29th 2017 at 10:28 PM
Last Edited April 29th 2017 at 10:29 PM
Animenut
There is a right and a wrong way to play every game. This "there is no such thing as wrong" is pacifistic tripe. The right way to play a game is the way the game was intended to be played. If you personally find more enjoyment playing it a different way, then you have every right to enjoy the game however you choose to, but you are enjoying the objectively-wrong way of playing the game. As an example, take Pac Man. A classic arcade game everyone should be familiar with. The point of the game is to navigate the maze to collect all the pellets without touching the ghosts, except shortly after eating a super pellet. That is the correct way to play the game. If you, for whatever reason, enjoy running headfirst into unweakened ghosts for the sole purpose of dying repeatedly, then you have every right to enjoy the game by playing it that way, but it is still objectively the wrong way to play the game.

Basically, Amanda, you're confusing "There is no right or wrong way to play a game" and "There is no right or wrong way to enjoy a game." If there truly was no right or wrong way to play a game, then game design would not exist. You could throw literal feces at a blank game cartridge, then sell it, calling it "a game you can figure out how to play in your own way." It falls squarely into the adage "If everything is special, then nothing is" because it eradicates any individuality. If there is no right or wrong way to play any game, then why should any game ever be different than any other game if the games themselves are irrelevant in the equation? Without any objective judgment, there can be no objective differences in any games, which ends up with that logic validating the mindset that would believe games like Alien Invaders and Devil May Cry are exactly the same with no discernible differences to distinguish them from eachother.

692 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 30th 2017 at 3:10 AM
Teschio
Amanda, I disagree: every game HAS a right way to be played, which is the way the game was designed to be played. You can play however you want, and even enjoy it, but that doesn't make it the right way. For example, you may love leprechauns, and decide that you will only ever use leprechaun crusaders: it's entirely up to you, and if you enjoy it this way, great. But you can't ask the devs to create more leprechaun crusaders just because that's how you enjoy playing: the game is not supposed to be played that way, even if you enjoy it.

As for this suggestion, it's equally irrelevant: you should not tank (not regularly, at least), and so this becomes an issue for a very small fraction of players a very small fraction of the time. Plainly speaking, it's not worth the time to code it. Even if it only took 10 minutes of a dev's time (and it would take way more), those 10 minutes could be spent in better ways than to address issues that are relevant only to people who choose to play the game the wrong way (because it IS the wrong way!).

Play the game however you want if you like, but you can't ask for the devs to spend their time catering to your desires if you do.

5565 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 30th 2017 at 6:14 AM
Raymond
THIS game, crusaders of the lost idols, is actually designed by having a talent called 'sniper' to be able to click on monsters and possibly be able to 'see' that you are actually doing damage or not on them. BUT NO, not when there is a pileup.

the playing field is just way too cluttered, and changing way too often in some cases, like I find it impossible to count the number of buffs or find the effect of a specific crusaders buff on another specific crusader, wjem the buffs around everyone blink every second or so. I can't even see my own crusaders health in many cases vecause of the 'clutter'.

sorry for hijacking this thread. MrWizards request is a simple one, is a valid one, is an easy one to implement without taking man years away from development of 'real' things. This idea is a good one for everyone even those of you who play the game 'right'.

so devs if I may ask please close this thread. nobody actually has anything constructive to say anymore.

171 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 30th 2017 at 6:16 AM
KameRose
"every game HAS a right way to be played, which is the way the game was designed to be played." Haven't you noticed that this game is designed for several different playing styles? That means there is no SINGLE right way to play this game.

What is the end-game goal for this game? B/c there is no ultimate goal given to us. There is no holy grail at the end of a tunnel here or an end of the maze in your Pac Man scenario. There is only mildly amusing objectives and new crusaders every month. So what is the goal of this game? Not your personal goal, the goal that every player should have?

Is the goal to grab as many idols as you can? Or is the goal to finish all objectives? Or finish all achievements? Or collect all 'saders? Or get all 'saders to legendary? This isn't a black and white game, it is a rainbow of different colors.

If tanking isn't suppose to be such a big part of the game then the devs wouldn't keep releasing new 'saders that do well in or add value to a tank formation. It is hardly asking the devs to cater to my personal desires when it is an issue that every player has to deal with. Just because you choose to not deal with it doesn't mean that is the wrong way.

Crusaders that do well in or add value to a tank formation:
1) The Bush Whacker - clicker
2) RoboRabbit - clicker
3) Graham the Driver - clicker
4) Warwick the Warlock - clicker
5) Veronica, the Android Archer - shooter
6) Arachnobuddy - shooter
7) Karen, the Cat Teenager - 9 lives
8) Groklok the Orc - tank
9) Mindy the Mime - mimics any formation ability
10) Detective Kaine - magnify
11) Mister the Monkey - magnify
12) Larry the Leprechaun - magnify
13) Bernard the Bartender - magnify
14) The Princess - firestorm
15) RoboTurkey - firestorm
16) Ranger Rayna - firestorm, healer
17) Baenarall, Angel of Hope - firestorm
18) Jack O'Lantern - tank
19) Karl the Kicker - splash dealer
20) Jason, Master of Shadows - deflects attacking monsters from himself
21) Broot - tank
22) Paul the Pilgrim - tank
23) Artaxes, the Lion - savage strikes
24) Drizzle the Dark Elf - savage strikes, damage reducer for Groklok's entire column
25) Bubba, the Swimming Orc - savage strikes
26) Sisaron the Dragon Sorceress - savage strikes
27) Khouri, the Witch Doctor - healer
28) Momma Kaine - healer
29) Brogon, Prince of Dragons - healer
30) The Half-Blood Elf - healer
31) Foresight - healer
32) Dark Gryphon - damage reducer
33) Rocky the Rockstar - damage reducer
34) Montana James - damage reducer
35) The Dark Helper - damage reducer
36) The Metal Soldierette - tank, self heals
37) Gold Panda - gold-a-rama
38) RoboSanta - gold-a-rama
39) Leerion, the Royal Dwarf - gold-a-rama
40) Katie the Cupid - shooter
41) Wendy the Witch - more dps with each monster on screen
42) Robbie Raccoon - supports Broot
43) Princess Val the Mermaid - healer
44) Fire Phoenix - vengeful fury, heart of the phoenix
45) Alan the ArchAngel - blinding light, resurrection
46) Fright-o-Tron 4000 - oogy-boogy, remote detonation, chained explosions
47) Spaceking - avenger
48) King Reginald IV - royal command
49) Queen Siri - royal command
50) Mr. Boggins, the Substitute - royal command
51) Thalia, the Thunder King - tank
52) Littlefoot - tank
53) Cindy the Cheer-Orc - high stamina
54) Merci, the Mad Wizard - alchemy, splash dealer
55) The Bat Billionaire - alchemy
56) Petra the Pilgrim - alchemy, splash dealer, supports Paul
57) Gloria, the Good Witch - healer
58) The Shadow Queen - deflects attacking monsters from herself
59) Greyskull the Pirate - tank
60) Eiralon, the Blood Mage - does well with healers in formation

So let's see that is 60 out of 83 crusaders that do well in a tank set-up. Or 72.3%. Ant that isn't event taking into account the legendary effects! Then there is trinkets that increase click damage. Oh and those talents! Time-o-rama, Massive Criticals, Endurance Training, Gold-o-splosion, Sniper, Every Last Cent, and Scavenger, completely useless. And then there are those buffs and warps. And why do chests have gold in them? Sure looks like the devs spent a lot of time on the 'wrong' way to play. You should tell them that they are designing the game wrong.

692 Posts
Link to post - Posted April 30th 2017 at 9:03 AM
Teschio
Come on, talk about bias here! You list includes a lot of crusaders that have nothing to do with tanking, such as those with magnify or savage strikes. And clicker crusaders, that are notoriously useless with the exception of the Bush Whacker. Other crusaders may have taking abilities, but that's never the reason they are used (littlefoot, thalia, etc.) You even put Mindy in there, just to get your list longer!

And yes, tanking can be done, but ONLY as a way to push a few extra levels. A FEW, not dozens of them. Yes, if you are tanking monsters, you ARE doing it wrong. Idle games are about maximizing efficiency, and tanking is simply ineffective compared to instakilling.

This is such a non-issue that it's not worth the devs' time. I also find it unhelpful to defend tanking as a valid strategy, because new players may think that it works and waste a lot of time with that.