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Active Ability Gear, New Trinkets and more!

130 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 11th 2017 at 2:01 PM
Last Edited July 12th 2017 at 4:47 AM
Azamagon
So, to explain why I'm making this thread:

My view on Gear and Legendary effects which upgrades active abilities (like Firestorm etc) feels like this to me:
1) I feel it promotes a weird and really tedious behaviour - namely quickly swapping Crusaders (in the same seat, is what I mean) to get the most out of an ability, then switch it back. Imo, this is not fun at all. It's also difficult to do, since the game tends to lag when you are tanking lots of enemies (which is when active abilities tend to shine)
2) It hinders the potential of the Crusaders with this type of Gear.
3) I do however acknowledge that some of these effects are rather cool, but I feel that it could be done in a different way which is NOT tied to specific Crusaders.

And that's what I'm gonna propose here - New Trinkets, which I'll refer to as:

Artifacts

Artifacts will now be what upgrades Active Abilities. Due to this, I'll later also suggest changes for all the Gear on Crusaders which currently deal with Active Abilities.

So, the idea behind these Artifacts is that they behave like regular gear:
* They have different rarities which they get upgraded into (Common/Uncommon/Rare/Epic/Golden/Legendary/Goldlegendary).
* They are found in silverchests and jeweled chests, with their corresponding qualities.
* Getting duplicates of Artifacts gives crafting resources.
* You can get recipes to upgrade Artifacts' quality, and can also upgrade them into legendary quality, as well as disenchant them back to epic quality again, if you want to.

Extra thoughts with moving Active Ability upgrades over to Artifacts:
* Since you now longer need specific Crusaders on the field for the Active Ability to be upgraded (you only need the Crusaders on the field to be able to activate one), investing resources into these Artifacts might feel more worthwhile.
* There are 2 (could be 3, but I don't have enough ideas yet!) Artifacts for each Active Ability.
* All these Artifacts stack! Active abilities can thus become INCREDIBLY powerful.

These are my suggested effects ideas for all Artifacts:

Click-o-Rama Artifact 1
* Increases the amounts of clicks per second from Click-o-Rama by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%.
* Legendary effect - Click-o-Rama now also increases critical click chance by 25% while active (doubled with each rank) (RoboRabbit's legendary)

Click-o-Rama Artifact 2
* Reduces the cooldown of Click-o-Rama by 10/20/33/50/60/67/75%.
* Legendary effect - Click-o-Rama now also increases your total click damage by 25% while active (doubled with each rank)

Magnify Artifact 1
* Using Magnify also increases the potency of your next buff card by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%.
* Legendary effect - Magnify now has 100% more charges per use, but cooldown is also increased by 100% (this probably shouldn't double per rank, but rather just add +100%, for both the charges and cooldown, for each rank? Note that these extra charges work together with the other Magnify-Artifact's legendary effect too!)

Magnify Artifact 2
* Reduces the cooldown of Magnify by 10/20/33/50/60/67/75% (Gear on all Crusaders in Slot 6, except Bernard)
* Legendary effect - Using Magnify now also increases the duration of your next buff card by 25% (doubled with each rank)

Firestorm Artifact 1
* Firestorm also permanently reduces the damage dealt from Firestorm-struck monsters by 10/20/33/50/60/67/75%.
* Legendary effect - Firestorm deals additional damage, equal to 100% of your total DPS (doubled with each rank)

Firestorm Artifact 2
* Reduces the cooldown of Firestorm by 10/20/33/50/60/67/75%. (The Princess and RoboTurkey's gear)
* Legendary effect - Firestorm now also causes a click on all Firestorm-struck monsters, with click damage equal to 100% of your total click damage (doubled with each rank)

Savage Strikes Artifact 1
* Savage Strikes also increases Global DPS by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300% while active (Gear on all Crusaders in Slot 10, except Sisaron)
* Legendary effect - Savage Strikes also increases your critical click damage bonus by 100% while active (doubled with each rank) (Note; This stacks additively to your current critclick damage, just like the Massive Criticals talent)

Savage Strikes Artifact 2
* Reduces the cooldown of Savage Strikes by 10/20/33/50/60/67/75%.
* Legendary effect - Savage Strikes also increases your click damage by 10% of your total DPS while active (doubled with each rank) (Similar to the Siphon Power buffs)

Gold-o-Rama Artifact 1
* Increases the effect of Gold-o-Rama by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%. (Gold Panda's gear)
* Legendary effect - Gold-o-Rama also increases Gold found by 100% while active (doubled with each rank)

Gold-o-Rama Artifact 2
* Reduces the cooldown of Gold-o-Rama by 10/20/33/50/60/67/75%.
* Legendary effect - Increases the effect of Gold-o-Rama by 100% (doubled with each rank) (Gold Panda's Legendary)

Royal Command Artifact 1
* Monsters paused by Royal Command are also constantly clicked upon, at a rate of 1/2/3/4/6/8/12 clicks per second
* Legendary effect - Increases all gold found by 25% for every monster affected by Royal Command (doubled with each rank) (Boggin's legendary)

Royal Command Artifact 2
* Reduces the cooldown of Royal Command by 10/20/33/50/60/67/75%. (Gear on all Crusaders in Slot 17, except Squiggles)
* Legendary effect - Causes monster affected by Royal Command to take 100% more damage (doubled with each rank) (King Reginald's legendary)

Storm Rider Artifact 1
* Increases the effect of Storm Rider by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%. (All Crusaders in Slot 18 gear)
* Legendary effect - Increases the effect of Storm Rider by 100% (doubled with each rank) (Thalia's legendary)

Storm Rider Artifact 2
* Increases your Gold found (additively) equal to 10/25/50/100/150/200/300% of your current Storm Rider bonus (Thalia's Legendary, but revamped)
* Legendary effect - Increases the effect of Storm Rider by 400%, but also its cooldown by 200% (doubled with each rank) (Frosty's legendary)

Alchemy Artifact 1
* Increases the effect of Alchemy by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%. (Merci's gear)
* Legendary effect - Alchemy also increases Global DPS by 100% while active (doubled with each rank) (Bat Billionaire's legendary)

Alchemy Artifact 2
* Reduces the cooldown of Alchemy by 10/20/33/50/60/67/75%.
* Legendary effect - Alchemy also increases the health of all Crusaders by 50% while active (doubled with each rank)


So, that was a LONG list. But now when these are suggested, I also have to suggest changes for the gear (and some abilities) which will need to be changed along with this.
Some of these changes are placeholders, but I guess they can all work. Here we go:

* RoboRabbit's Tube Legendary - Either increases the effect of Wind-up Bunny by 100%, or increases the DPS of all Crusaders if there are 3 or more Robots in formation. Or anything else really.
* Detective Kaine's Glass Gear - Now increases gold found by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%
* Mister Monkey's Hat Gear - Now increases gold found by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%
* Larry Leprechaun's Hat Gear - Now increases gold found by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%
* Bartender Bernard's Gear - For fairness, Bernard would need changes to be similarly good at goldfinding as the others. Thus I'd suggest this:
His Bottle = Now increases gold found by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%
His Barcloth = Now increases both the chance and the effect of Tips! (Its legendary still only affects the effect)
* The Princess' Cape Gear - Now increases critical click chance by 1/2/3/4/6/8/12%
* RoboTurkey's Chip Gear - Now increases critical click chance by 1/2/3/4/6/8/12%
* Artaxes' Goggles Gear - Now increases critical click chance by 1/2/3/4/6/8/12%
* Drizzle's Pauldron Gear - Now increases critical click chance by 1/2/3/4/6/8/12%
* Bubba's Swimcap Gear - Now increases critical click chance by 1/2/3/4/6/8/12%
* Gold Panda's Cape Gear - Now increases the effect of "Order of the Holy Coin" by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300% (Or something like that?)
* Gold Panda's Watch Legendary - Now increases your gold found by 25% per Supernatural Crusader in the formation (additive)
* King Reginald's ability "The Royal Army" is now buffed to 25% global DPS (up from 10%)
* King Reginald's Crown Gear - Now increases the effect of The Royal Army by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%
* King Reginald's Writing Legendary - Now increases the effect of The Royal Army by another 100% (maybe?)
* Queen Siri's Pillow Gear - Now increases the effect of Taxation Nation by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%
* Mr. Boggins' Ruler Gear - Now increases the effect of Diversity by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%
* Mr. Boggins' Ruler Legendary - Now increases the effect of Diversity by 100% (maybe?)
* Thalia's Forked Lightning ability now changed to this: Every 5 seconds, all enemies on the field are struck by lightning, suffering damage equal to 15% of total DPS. Enemies that attack Thalia suffer this damage every second (so it's more effective when he tanks them)
* Thalia's Ring Legendary - Now increases the effect of Forked Lightning by 100%
* Thalia's Amulet Gear - Now increases the effect of Forked Lightning by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%
* Thalia's Amulet Legendary - Now increases the health of Thalia by 100% (this legendary could be reverse with the Ring legendary, if it makes more sense?)
* Frosty's Pipe Legendary - Now increases the DPS of Frosty by 10% per non-DPSer in the formation (maybe?)
* Frosty's Pauldron Gear - Now increases the DPS of all Crusaders by 5/10/15/40/60/80/120%
* Littlefoot's Camera Gear - Now increases the health of Littlefoot by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%
* Littlefoot's Spear Legendary - Now increases the health of Littlefoot by 10% for each point of XP that Littlefoot has (just some crazy idea, probably too powerful. Something related to DPS is probably more balanced?)
* Cindy's Pompom Gear - Now increases the effect of Practice Makes Perfect by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300% (Probably way too good, but the point here is to emphasize her area-power)
* Merci's Lotus Land ability now changed to this: Increases the health of all Crusaders by 25%
* Merci's Orb Gear - Now increases the effect of Lotus Land by 10/25/50/100/150/200/300%
* Bat Billionaire's Deep Menacing Voice ability now changed to this: Sidekicks now also grants 25% Splash-damage.
* Bat Billionaire's Cape Legendary - Now increases the effect of Deep Menacing Voice by 100%


Wall of text... over! :D

What do you think about all this?

692 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 12th 2017 at 3:31 AM
Teschio
Took a while to read it... I like the idea, it looks well thought out and not unbalancing (except from Storm Rider getting the equivalent of Thalia's AND Frosty's legendaries, and those would likely stack multiplicatively), but I'm not sure it would ever be implememented.

130 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 12th 2017 at 4:12 AM
Azamagon
@Teschio

Hey, thanks for taking the time to read all that! Glad you like it too!
I understand that it's unlikely to be implemented, but I at least wanted to share the ideas :)

As for the Artifacts that take over Thalia+Frosty's legendaries, got any idea how to deal with those?
I was also considering (instead of the Frosty-esque legendary) suggesting Thalia's other SR-legendary (gold per SR-use), which is probably more balanced. But I personally think that Frosty's legendary is more interesting *shrugs*

46 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 13th 2017 at 10:08 AM
Muljo Stpho
I think what makes the Storm Rider artifact ideas stick out is that you've broken the pattern followed by all the other suggested artifacts:
Artifact 1 main effect = effect boost or additional effect
Artifact 2 main effect = cooldown reduction

When you got to Storm Rider you changed it up to both being about an effect boost/tweak.

On the other hand, we get Storm Rider cooldown reduction from a talent... Which really just brings up the fact that only Storm Rider and Gold-O-Rama are singled out in talents while other active abilities are mostly left alone (at least until that one that gives the chance to skip cooldowns for all of them). And that could be a whole other thing to get into brainstorming a list of suggestions for, because really if they wanted to they could fill out an entire section of the talents page with just active ability related stuff.

(I do think talents in general could use a from-the-ground-up rethink of how it's all organized anyway. Like I had been trying to imagine it arranged with many smaller groups instead of the three "trees", organized more distinctly by types of bonuses (there are a few examples where similar things are put in different trees). Like there could be a clicking group, an active ability group, a gold group, a gear/EP group, an idol farming group, and whatever else (probably just something like an unlocks group for the single-level stuff). I was also imagining that unlocking higher talent tiers could increase the level caps on most talents in the previous tiers, possibly in the extended range changing the gain per level (only within the new range, not retroactive with previous levels) or changing what type of bonus is gained. For example, lower Surplus Cooldown's cap to 40 for its "tier 1" range (total bonus at this point is 10%) but then it could have a "tier 2" range from 41-60 gaining 0.5% per level (gaining another 10% for a total of 20% at level 60), and then maybe it gains a "tier 3" range up to 70 and a "tier 4" up to 75? (10 and 10 total within each range, landing at a grand total of 40% at max level))

Artifacts would definitely be something interesting to see though.

And maybe a way to handle the Storm Rider ones would be something like... Okay, just spitballing something here:

Artifact 1 main = increased effect, presented as a primary buff AND a secondary buff (two different values, both scaled with the item's quality, multiplicative with each other)
Artifact 1 legendary = small additive bonus to artifact 1 main effect's primary buff, PLUS some form of the gold bonus

Artifact 2 main = cooldown reduction
Artifact 2 legendary = large additive bonus to artifact 1 main effect's secondary buff, PLUS the cooldown penalty

Maybe? I don't know if that's really any better...

But on top of what you laid out, I'm also inclined to think that since these are kind of in a weird place somewhere between trinkets and gear that maybe there should be some aspect of them that references a count of certain trinkets to derive a bonus. I don't really have anything too specific to list off there... But like something could reference a fraction (based on the quality of the artifact) of the total bonus for a set of trinkets and turn that into something else. And something else might count up all trinkets of a specific quality and do something with that number.

Another thought on top of what you laid out is that I was kind of expecting you to list off three artifacts per active ability, like how crusader gear is in sets of three. But maybe that could be too much of a stretch to find things for each of them to do.

130 Posts
Link to post - Posted July 13th 2017 at 2:20 PM
Azamagon
@Muljo Stpho

Hey, thanks for this very thorough reply! I'll try to be as thorough in my responses too:

Yeah, the reason I didn't have cooldown reduction on the other SR-artifact was because of the corresponding talent. If the SR-talent could be revamped into something else entirely, the SR-artifacts could be changed too, with one of them reducing its cooldown, so it follows the same pattern as the others.
I honestly think specific talents, especially the GoR-booster and the spawncard-talent, are a bit TOO specific. But the SR-talents are still sort of ok to me, probably because I feel that SR is an ability you ALWAYS want to use whenever you can.

SO yeah, since the talents are the way they are (and not wanting to make that wall of text bigger than it already is), the suggestions turned out the way they did :)

And as for your talent tree ideas, I think you are overthinking that a smudge. The only talent I would agreed which doesn't really fit where it is, is the "Every Last Cent" (a mission-related talent in the passive tree? Mission-related talents should be Active or Utility, imo. If I'd change it, I'd just merge it into the "Scavenger" talent in the Utility tree, and then add an entirely new passive in the now missing tier 1 slot. Maybe some talent which buffs your goldfind, maybe in the form as some kind of booster to the gold-increasing Trinkets?)

Other than that, I think the trees are well sorted as they are:
Active tree deals with clicks, buffs and active abilities. All of those are highly active actions.
Passive tree deals with DPS, gear and other such passive gains (except for Every Last Cent)
Utility tree deals with levels, idols, QoL and other pseudo-active actions.

Your SR-suggestions; Seems a bit overly ... bloated? And with how that's suggested, I have the feeling that the cooldown-penalty on the 2nd legendary would be more of a penalty than how it's presented now (where it's more of a frontloading effect, rather than a true penalty).
Considering that we might get more campaigns that are tougher than Amusement Park of Doom, I think it's quite safe to leave the SR-artifacts as they are. We might need it...

I see what you mean by making the Artifacts into a trinket kind of thing, but once again, I think that's overthinking it. It would also be much, much harder to balance if they could stack up in some way (Unless it affected the legendaries? But then you might get unwanted effects).
Making it work like how gear works now, I still think is the best way to deal with it.

As for not having 3 artifacts per active ability - Yeah, it was precisely because it was tough to come up with more balanced ideas for all the active abilities. I really tried, but it was way too hard, so I just did my best to have at least 2 each for now.
(The fact that almost all of them have a cooldown reduction Artifact is quite the hint at the difficulty, no? Hehe :P)

I'm glad you like the general idea though! :)

Thanks again for the very thorough feedback!
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