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New Changes! Update to Loot and Classic Crusaders Buff!

5 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 21st 2016 at 2:02 AM
Blobathor
I'm in the same point of Loot, my Pam has all epics (spent enough to get 220 personal ep on her), my natalie has epics aswell and she's getting above. I mean it's ok to have other crusaders buffed but Pam need something, she's a dpser (2 self dps epics) and need something to suit more. She has 4 +100% skills in her kit to boost her own dps, boosting 2 of those to 150% or 200% would be nice.
Blobathor

692 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 21st 2016 at 3:28 AM
Teschio
Pam is not a DPSer, quite simply. Yes, she does have self DPS items, she could do damage with the right items, but she is still primarily a buffer (and a great one at that!). She has 4 +100% skills, which are no match for DPS crusaders (Werewolf 3x100 + 150 + 200, hermit 4x100 + 200, and the new Natalie has 3x100, 150 and 200+ with Nate). But mainly, Pam is not be a viable DPSer since she is an event crusader, which means her EPs will always be less than basic crusaders, at least until the talent shop is released.
Post by Teschio deleted January 21st 2016 at 3:29 AM

6 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 21st 2016 at 6:19 AM
astridthecrafty
I'm not getting any chests on the boss levels since level 25 after the update? anyone else?

692 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 21st 2016 at 10:07 AM
Teschio
It's just bad luck. I just got a few of those. Consider that I am pretty sure they didn't touch that part of the code.
Post by Teschio deleted January 21st 2016 at 10:07 AM

24 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 21st 2016 at 10:53 AM
NoOneOnEarth
This is simply a marvelous update that properly defined each and every crusader. The game seems to also be taking the right turn away from the Idle genre and more towards RPG.

16 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 21st 2016 at 10:54 AM
Last Edited January 21st 2016 at 11:01 AM
Loot
@Teschio,
If Pam is not DPSer why does she have two +400% self-dps?
If she is not DPSer why does each of her skill boost her dps except VFR?
If she is not DPSer why is she the strongest dpser among all my crusaders?

When she first came out, she's the only one with two +400% self-dps which beats Wolf or Hermit by far. So I bought her 3 epics under the impression that she was going to be a great dpser and she was.

Then the devs boosted every other dpser except Pam, which is really equivalent to nerfing Pam. I feel like I should get a refund for investing in Pam.

692 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 21st 2016 at 11:16 AM
Last Edited January 21st 2016 at 11:24 AM
Teschio
@ Loot, just take a look at the other crusaders, expecially before this patch: 2 DPS items do not guarantee that a crusader is a DPSer (Jim has those, and he is a DPSer only if you have godly items for him and crappy items for everyone else). Pam is exactly like Jim except that her formation skill is stronger but more situational. She has a 100+ DPS buff and she is NOT a buffer? She is the stronger DPSer you have because you clearly didn't start playing until recently, and you pumped a lot of money in event chests to give her good EPs. But until the talent shop is released, she could never be a good DPSer, because of lack of EPs. My Pam has 150 EPs (most of which come from Jim) compared to the 300+ of every other classic crusader. This fact alone makes clear that she is not a DPSer, no event crusader can ever be unless you spend hundreds of dollars on them or the talent shop is released.

And no, you should not get a refund. The game is in beta, it clearly says so every time you load it. You spend money on it at your own peril. She has +400% epics because the devs were already working on boosting epics for every crusader, clearly. Since I started playing, my main DPSer changed FIVE times, because of gear, new crusaders, amount of EPs, etc. (the last time was yesterday with this patch). As the game grows, you can't expect your formation to be the best one for eternity. It was your choice to spend a lot of money on Pam (a poor choice IMHO), you can complain all you want, but that doens't entitle you to a refund.

5 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 21st 2016 at 12:19 PM
Blobathor
I wouldn't be asking for a refund but rather a rework of pam's epics or something for her dps would be nice.
And Pam is still my best dps atm (at least on grimm's)

692 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 21st 2016 at 2:14 PM
Last Edited January 21st 2016 at 2:17 PM
Teschio
Why should Pam's epics be any different from other crusaders'? The only, and I mean ONLY, reason she has +400% epics was that the devs were already working on buffing epics for every crusaders when they introduced her. An epic DPS item gives +400%, always. Items are consistent, if you notice: they all do the exact same thing, with the exact same numerical values at a given rarity, regardless of the crusader they are assigned to. There is absolutely no reason to make an exception for a particular crusader, just because you spent a ton of money on it.

Personally I think that any crusader with a signature skill that is a buff should be considered a buffer. The only reason why she deals the most damage for you is that you spent money to boost her EPs. But since the event is over, and you will see it again no sooner than one year from now, she will fall behind on EPs compared to classic crusaders. The talent shop may change that, but at the moment no event crusader can be a viable DPSer. They can work for a while, expecially if you started playing recently or if you spend A LOT of money on them, but eventually they will always lag behind. Her skills will not matter, in 6 months her damage will be less than what you will get from other crusaders (like Natalie, thanks to recent buffs). I strongly suggest that you move on and change formation, like many people did more than once since they started playing, instead of asking for buffs to the particular crusader you are using right now.

16 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 21st 2016 at 2:25 PM
Last Edited January 21st 2016 at 3:04 PM
Loot
@Teschio
How would I know the devs were working on buffing all the epics to +400% when I bought Pam's epics only a week ago?
"An epic DPS item gives +400%, always" but they didn't two days ago. wtf? Did you start the game yesterday?

Let's look at where you are wrong:
1. I am not a new player, I have 15k+ idols and I took a month break from the game.
2. I have 200+ EP on pam. 300EP gives you 50% more dps than 200EP, 200EP gives you 10x more dps than 20EP. EP matters much less when you already have a ton unless you think you can get 1k+ EP. You should do the math.
3. Ep will be shared more in future.

Now you insist Pam is not a dpser.
I have leveled all my dpser to 2000+ and similar cost/lvl, made formation for each of them to obtain the best possible dps, then adjust their EP and epics to the same level and compare their dps before this game update. i.e., compare them when they have the same cost/lvl, all epic gear, same EP.
Pam was top 1 dpser. (btw I have two epics on Siri that boosts Pam)
The reason Pam is Blobather and my best dpser is not because we have tons of eps on her, it's because she's strong in herself.
You were all talks without actually experimenting yourself. At this point I think you are trolling.

Now either a refund for Pam is needed or Pam needs serious buff because:
1. All the other dps crusaders were massively buffed except Pam. How strong a crusader is is relative to others, boosting all the others is essentially
nerfing Pam. I don't think I should pay for a product just to get it nerfed a week later. That's not how a company does business.
2. Now, with all epics on Pam and Siri, Pam is still merely at the level as Natalie and Nate with all rares. This in itself demands rebalance of Pam or Natalie.

11 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 21st 2016 at 2:59 PM
Last Edited January 21st 2016 at 2:59 PM
Dakken
I don't think I've ever seen anyone feel so maliciously attacked based on a buff.

134 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 22nd 2016 at 12:30 AM
thedude
Hay, Loot, in case you missed it, literally every time you start the game there is a banner on the screen that reads "This game is currently in beta, so formulas, abilities, and features may change dramatically from day to day."

16 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 22nd 2016 at 1:30 AM
Loot
Being in beta is no excuse for everything. In the end of the day, the game is to make profit and losing customer trust doesn't help achieve that.

I feel cheated for getting 3 epics on Pam, especially the two DPS epics. At the very least, I think either buff Pam's dps or change her two DPS epics to something else.

692 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 22nd 2016 at 3:23 AM
Last Edited January 24th 2016 at 5:19 PM
Teschio
Loot, let's be honest, shall we? It was YOUR CHOICE to spend a ton of money to get epics for Pam (let's not talk about spending money to "win" at a game that has no winners, not even a leaderboard...). And you did it DESPITE the fact that it is clearly written that abilities and formulas may change drastically from day to day. No refunds for people who can't read.

More on Pam NOT being a DPSer: you miss a point. Yes, if she had the same EPs as other crusaders and the pre-buff epics she would have been a good DPSer. But you admit that your calculations were done under the assumtion that she will have the same EPs as other crusaders. The problem is, this assumption is wrong! Things MAY change when the talent shop is released (which could be months from now for all we know), but for now, EVERY event crusader will lag behind in EPs. Even if you spend a lot of money on them (which you foolishly did), there will come a point when they will have far less EPs than other crusaders to be viable. In 8 months, how many EPs do you think Natalie will have compared to Pam? I have been playing for 6 months and my crusaders have 300-350 EPs each, not considering the 2500 chests I still have to open and reserve for a future challenging objective... so, let's say something like 75 EPs a month (and I think it's a conservative estimation), in 8 months Natalie would gain 600 EPs, Pam only 200 (through Jim's). You see now? Pam MAY be a good DPSer, if she were not an event crusader. Until the talent shop is released, NO event crusader could be a viable DPSer in the long run.


PS: I am not against occasionally supporting the developers by buying in-game stuff. They do a totally free great game, and I feel like donating them some money every once in a while to show my appreciation. But I will NEVER understand people that spend money not to support the developers, but to win.

(Jan 24-edited for off-topic content- Erika)

4 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 22nd 2016 at 10:46 AM
pktime
Loot, how the heck are you getting more damage on natalie (with only rares) than sarah with the golden epic? Natalie is a mediocre dpser even with the new buffs as she is missing 1 damage item, and certainly no match for sarah.

Personally I think the updates are great, and even though the best dpsers remain pretty much the same, there is now more freedom to use other crusaders as dps, not to mention the changes in hero roles (ninja is no longer useless!) which will enable more interesting missions and gameplay.

16 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 22nd 2016 at 11:07 AM
Last Edited January 24th 2016 at 5:20 PM
Loot
@Teschio
I happen to have some money at my hand, who are you to judge where I spend my money on? You know you are not just insulting me, you are insulting anyone who spend like me in this game who made it possible for the devs to continuing supporting the game.

The problem here is they released two +400% epics on pam then a few days later buffed everyone else from +200% to 400%. If the epics on pam were originally +200% I wouldn't have a problem b/c I wouldn't have bought them.


(Jan 24-edited for off-topic content- Erika)

62 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 22nd 2016 at 11:19 AM
Last Edited January 22nd 2016 at 11:19 AM
Roku
I like and agree with most of the changes. It's nice to see so many formerly useless items suddenly become so useful! So many crusaders I barely touched before have good uses now! Although I feel like almost all of these changes are great, I feel I should give a tiny bit of feedback too on the tiny bit I don't quite agree with:

-With the massive buffs to Natalie and Sal, Emo and Hermit's conditional buffs seem kind of weak considering the trouble they take to achieve, especially since they often involve not using powerful buffers like Sasha, Jim, or Pam, depending on the formation (or leaving a slot empty). Natalie and Sal's conditional buffs merely involve having a specific crusader on the field anywhere to buff them (and a little bit of gear to raise the buff % doesn't hurt). For example, right now my Sal has a 26437.5X vs Hermit's 24360X despite having worse gear and fewer EP! Plus I can use Sasha and Pam with him without any effort. There's still base damage to take into account so I need to do a few more calculations, but it's not looking too good for Hermit in most formations right now. I haven't done the math on Natalie yet, but she might potentially be in a similar situation.

-I will use Phoenix even less now than before due to the RNG. With the increase in tanks this patch, I was expecting her to be a tank with a built-in self-heal with that nice 100% chance of burst damage if something managed to take her out. Now I have no idea where to make her fit in. She would be overpowered if she could do her damage spike 100% of the time from the back row whenever someone died now that it's not limited to her death only, but I feel that she's lost her 100% emergency damage niche in exchange for now primarily being useful in RNG cheese strategies where people simply repeat waves until RNG lets her kill everything. She just seems confused and broken now, especially since she still retains a lot of her DPS skills which are pretty worthless considering she now lacks DPS gear.

-I love the changes to Simba's Pride, but I'm dissapointed that Gold-o-Rama didn't receive a similar passive buff. There are two reasons I almost never use Gold-o-Rama. 1) I'm rarely ever able to click enemies before they die because 99% of the time they die instantly. Even in deep runs where enemies don't die instantly, I can still rarely click them enough to make much difference without putting my party in danger. It's a bit better now with the tank/healer buffs though. 2) Clicking a lot, especially with Gold-o-Rama active simply lags my game tremendously. It's a lot better since your optimizations a few patches ago, but I still don't see myself ever using Gold-o-Rama, even with these changes.

-There's a typo, I think. Frog Soup is only healing 30% even though I have the rare. (patch notes say 35%)

Sorry for the bit of a downer. I really like the majority of the changes this patch and love seeing this game develop! It's really all coming together very nicely!

3620 Posts
Link to post - Posted January 22nd 2016 at 11:56 AM
Erika/Alyniana
Thank you again to everyone for the feedback.

-

@ Roku: This was more an update to loot and some of the abilities that made no sense. There is still room to take another pass at those characters that still have self DPS upgrades.

Frog Soup's base heal with no gear was reduced to 20%, so with the rare, 30% is correct. That is indeed a typo in the change log. Thanks for the catch.

The point was to make more choices available depending on formation and gear luck. Obviously, if players have their optimal play style, they don't need to change.