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Codename Entertainment Forums > Shards of Titan > General Discussion > Joining a MP instance for free (now removed) discussion
| Page 1 2 Joining a MP instance for free (now removed) discussion
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6 Posts |
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- Posted April 12th 2015 at 12:20 PM
DirefalconLast Edited April 12th 2015 at 12:21 PM In response to dansonage - actually yes I did report the bug. I tend to have 3-5 active support tickets in relation to bugs open at most times. Some of which I could actually exploit but I choose not to.
I have no issue if it is done to help other people. But when Annie and Andaho (and others I assume) actively run 18+ to exploit it for tokens (Andaho's words), that is not acceptable for me. And no, power fragments wouldn't drop purely because of the max fragments available per tiered mission each day. For me, the annoyance here is about exploitation of paragon tokens. |
Post by Andaho deleted April 12th 2015 at 12:35 PM | |
39 Posts |
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- Posted April 12th 2015 at 12:35 PM
poisondwarfThanks Andaho and Annie for making my speech clearer.
David, I'm totally aware that one won't get loot bags for fights that are already finished when you enter later on. And that the loot would be only card shuffle if you just jump in for boss fight as well as that there is not an epic item in every run (although I'd wish) :D It's just: I took part in 2 or 3 of the runs and only got lumber and gold and some white and greens which is remarkably below normal. |
7 Posts |
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- Posted April 12th 2015 at 3:25 PM
SteendorianI don't feel the need to reiterate my opinion of this topic. The things I have to say have already been said. However, the discussion has got me thinking, maybe joining in-progress missions should be done a little differently.
Instead of: 1: Up to full reward (but the risk of little or no reward, depending on the situation), for the normal cost of one instance. Try: 2: No reward at all, and no cost to join. ...or offer the choice upon joining, because I'm sure not everyone would be happy with one or the other. ...or you could have an entirely separate cost/reward system, but I personally don't like that idea. |
886 Posts |
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- Posted April 12th 2015 at 3:54 PM
David Whittaker (CNE Dev)Last Edited April 12th 2015 at 3:55 PM Hi Steendorian,
I'm currently thinking: 3. Join in "Assist Mode" free to join, no normal rewards, gain an "Assist Token" (better name needed) for completing it. Then trade assist tokens for minor consumables or maybe a specific set of clothing items. Basically just a cool way to show off you like to help others. -David |
1 Posts |
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- Posted April 12th 2015 at 5:33 PM
NakedvolleyballAs I understood the discussion about this issue, it wasn't a question of what type of loot one received, either in bags or breakables, nor frags (knowing that zero frags were available), however it was in the Paragon Brotherhood tokens one receives upon completing a MP mission. So one single person could start an MP, then invite others to join, those others would then get paragon tokens at the end of the mission, without costing them an instance of the limited 5 each player gets per day.
* So they would do this in order to get the paragon tokens at the end of the mission, and not loot, no matter if it is blue, green, white, or epic. * So theoretically four people could collude to have 1 start an MP, invite the other 3, and continue until each had used an instance. Which would mean that those four people could run 20 missions each among themselves. And that is just four people doing this, one person could continue to join other instances, without cost, and continue to receive the paragon tokens for as many instances as they could get invited to after it began. If I recall correctly it was a T4 desert that this happened in (could have been others, I only recall T4 desert right now) and running a T4 gives you 4 paragon tokens, not as a one of the tasks, but as a bonus for completing that mission, (t3 = 3, t2 = 2, etc) so those same four people (in my example before) could obtain 80 paragon tokens from this cheat/bug. If one (or more) people could get post-start invites to more instances (without costing them their own) and could rack up the tokens given in each run it is, in my opinion, an unfair advantage in the game. It seems they knowingly kept it a secret that what they were doing the entire time gave them an unfair advantage, and intentionally not reporting it as a bug, thus continuing the unfair advantage over other players who expected an even playing field. --Sometimes my two cents gets long-winded. |
39 Posts |
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- Posted April 12th 2015 at 9:15 PM
poisondwarfOne gets paragon tokens just for finishing a tier run no matter if quest or not?? Really? Only bounty runs or also desert and forest?
I am absolutely not aware that you get more tokens than the listed ones. Which would be 3 tokens for a bounty or quest run. |
17 Posts |
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- Posted April 12th 2015 at 10:15 PM
Gaidinpoison - It's a Heroic thing. We always got an extra token for doing Paragon Tasks prior. We'd get the 5 for the task, and 1 for what is now a T1 Heroic. So, assuming we're ever able to realistically complete T6's, we'll be able to get 6 tokens for completing the mission, task accepted or not.
---------- I'm leaving the main discussion alone because my opinion has mostly already been represented. I'm just posting to note that I like the idea of Assist Mode. It would allow me to play more on my main character, help others, and potentially get little trinkets (figuratively, though literally wouldn't be terrible either) in the process. Being unable to help people with MPs Either because I "need" to save the last one to get frags or because I'm straight up out kind of sucks, especially at certain non-peak hours when getting someone for anything above T1 can be notably difficult. |
232 Posts |
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- Posted April 13th 2015 at 6:54 AM
AndahoI honestly don't understand the hostility and contention over this issue.
As I said before... It was not 'tokens for free' - You had to earn them by replaying the missions. I have already explained how long it took to 'earn' them, and how I felt it was fair, considering you are able to buy them for such little cost... CNE place such little value on paragon tokens, that you can buy 50 of them for $5 in 'the brotherhood pack', along with a speed potion that is worth 100 shardium, a class attack potion that is worth 100 shardium, and 5 brotherhood reset tokens that are worth 400 tokens - now to analyse that further... the pack costs 525 shardium... it's advertised as "SAVE 16%!"... take the value of the pots and the brotherhood reset tokens (600), and take 16% off that, and you have 504 shardium. - so effectively the value of 50 brotherhood tokens is a humongous 25 shardium... 25-16% = 21... 504+21 = 525 shardium. Now I STRONGLY disagree with that valuation of the paragon tokens... I am angry that it's possible to buy them at all... but since it's possible to buy 50 paragon tokens for effectively for 25 shardium, it seems fair to me that you could spend 5 hours playing, to gain the same value. - it's very similar to fishing in Bush Whacker 2 - but requires a lot more effort and concentration. ----- I'm just repeating myself here, over and over, but obviously you guys that are ranting out the contention have no understanding of my side of the argument. I feel like I am being persecuted by players that I like and respect. I have to admit that I have taken this persecution very personally. - I'm a passionate person who wears my heart on my shoulder... I'm starting to realise, a lot more than I should be, that I'm very passionate about this game... but I'm an all-or-nothing personality... I either do something, striving to be the best at it, or I won't bother doing it at all. ----- From reading responses here again, and having had a restless night thinking about it, I think I have come to the conclusion that: Although you seem to be making the argument, primarily over the paragon token gains... It seems that that's not the thing people are hurt and passionately annoyed about... It's more the fact that I led the way in finding the 'exploit' and I led the way in sharing it with my guild mates, and I led the way in encouraging the guild to keep it a secret. I accept full responsibility for this. I didn't realise that my actions would have other passionate players hating and persecuting me. If the devs have the ability to see how much I had gained from exploiting this feature, then I take back my statement about being angry if the rewards were taken away... I am starting to see now how this has upset people so much, and I am happy to have my gains removed. - I certainly believe I used this to my advantage more than any other player... well, maybe not... I know one person skipped a night's sleep to continue playing... but I'm not gonna name names - and it's my personal opinion that they earned the (relatively minor) gains they made, through such dedicated playing. Or perhaps instead of removing my paragon tokens - because some of them I have spent on skills already, I could be 'fined' in shardium for the value of the rewards I had gained? - about 100 (maybe as much as 150) paragon tokens? - based on the evaluation above, 50 tokens for 25 shardium?... lol - and yes, it's a joke - I don't even know what about... a joke I'm making against myself... or a joke that the devs value the paragon tokens so little... or both? - but not a joke about being happy to be fined shardium... If I've done something that others believe is wrong, then that's how law works, and I'm happy to pay. ----- I honestly didn't realise that I was doing anything wrong... I fully and logically analysed the 'feature', and I came to the conclusion that it was something easily discoverable by any player, or by a dev when performing simple testing before applying the update, and that it was probable that it was an intentional feature. This leads me to the other thing I'm very hurt about... If my actions were so obviously wrong... why did my closest friends in-game not try to explain that to me? Instead, 2 of my closest in-game friends, who initially supported keeping it a guild secret, and who were also initially enthusiastic about joining games for free... They have distanced themselves from me, quit the guild, and are claiming the moral high-ground. I feel betrayed and let down by these friends :( With most people in the guild believing it was an intentional feature, and wanting to take advantage of it ahead of other people discovering it, why did they not speak up against the crowd? - Ok, it requires a lot of bravery to go against the crowd... So why did they not PM me, to say they believed I was in the wrong?... It was, in fact, one of them that decided, after about 12 hours use of the 'feature', to swear at us in guild chat, calling us cheaters, and state proudly that they had reported it. - a complete surprise... without first expressing to us that they felt like it was cheating... I respect their opinion that they felt it was cheating, and I respect them for reporting it... but I am upset because they showed no respect towards the rest of us, by swearing at us, calling us cheaters, and generally stirring up an uncomfortable drama beyond all proportions. I'm not going to name names, but I happen to know that both these people are religious, and I had a very strict Christian upbringing myself... How one of them quietly switched to the attacker's side, and bad-mouthed me behind my back, it reminds me of the bible story of Judas. ----- So I'm confident that this is my closing statement on the issue... I am genuinely sorry that I upset so many people, and I've tried to best explain my logic (although some may still not understand)... It's time for me to put it in the past, learn from it, and move on. |
39 Posts |
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- Posted April 13th 2015 at 10:46 AM
poisondwarfRegarding the calculation of Paragon token costs, I would suggest to save dev time and just introduce the disabled feature as feature.
Loot like a normal run, no frags, paragon tokens as as reward as it was. All good. No need to consider more confusing stuff. I still don't understand why I should have imagined that this was not intended...It was a perfect balance. Just because they didn't brag about it? There are so many server restarts (imagined with patches, fixes, changes) where I don't know what is altered because nothing's told about (no, even the patch notes not contain all, I read those). --- Andy: please stop to chastise yourself. Although I understand your need to apologize because ppl are ranting at you (pity to have a famous name in the game and to tend to start controverse discussions in world chat, poking others), I can't see a reason. I'm still convinced we did nothing wrong. But if it was wrong, your faults in this case are not bigger than the ones of all others joining an instance. Many did and in my case I can only say: earning paragon tokens was just an accident I even didn't realize. To switch over to personal and really aggressive attacks is just - unprofessional? part of taking the game way too serious? To put it on personal morale is plain absurd. Don't waste another thought or even another night on this. ---- To the question why I personally didn't report it... 1. I really thought it is a feature and intended (believe it or not, I don't care) 2. I report bugs, i.e. stuff that keeps me from playing such as reproducable freezes etc. Sometimes I'm not happy with the type of fix I get in return (like the freeze stacking which was only bad in Arena but nice everywhere else and an ability weighting out the totally lame firewall and firestorm) but I can and have to live with that. Sometimes I would like to yell: if that is the solution then please give me my problem back, but that's how stuff works. 3. I'm not a paid tester for this game, I'm a paying player and thus some kind of natural enemy of the developer. They want money, I want to save it. It's just normal that I use an advantage when I meet one as does everybody (and I mean EVERYbody) else also. None of the rangers or the wizards stopped playing because their skills were glitched to their advantage, did they? If I had to readjust settings in my system or there would be a cheat like the '/dance' thing, e.g "type '/something' and get 200 speed more", I would not use it. Not because of my empathy with the devs but because I would betray myself most, reaching goals I didn't work for. Call this lack of morale? I can live with that either. |
886 Posts |
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- Posted April 13th 2015 at 12:44 PM
David Whittaker (CNE Dev)Last Edited April 13th 2015 at 2:02 PM Hi Everyone,
I have taken the time to look into this further, and how many extra paragon points were earned because of it. I have also ready over peoples responses and tickets and believe that some players really didn't think it was a bug, which does make this a challenging issue to approach and solve to everyones satisfaction. Andaho - I checked your data, in general you average between 110 - 120 Paragon points per day. On the days in question you gained 156, and 149. 41 and 34 above your average. This totals less than you usually earn in one day. Now I have a choice here, I can spend the next 2-3 hours writing a script that pours over everyones data and adjusts it less than a days worth of tokens, or I can focus my efforts working on the Jungle and todays fixes / server merge. Unfortunately it is not easy to tell exactly how many were obtained via free instances and how many were proper or paid instances. In the interest of fairness - given the small amount of tokens, the potential ambiguity of if this was intended or not, clearly the heartache and drama this is causing, and the unfortunate difficulty in tracking down the exact amounts - I am going to leave the small number of paragon points unadjusted. BUT anyone who did not gain any extra paragon points this way and feels strongly about this please open a ticket in game, and I will bump you up an amount based on your average paragon points earned each day. I recognize that not everyone will be happy with this, but I am hoping it will make the best of what is already a bad situation. I locking this thread now. Please everyone take a day and come at this with cool heads. Its a game, its intended to be fun, arguing with each other and letting it get out of hand is a great way to kill the fun. Thank You! Also... Andaho check your math! The value comes out at 125 Shardium for 50 paragon points. EDIT - My bad, the savings is wrong on that pack it was only counting one of the potions in the discount and it should be save 27% |
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