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Codename Entertainment
Bush Whacker - How is his Swordplay calculated?

130 Posts
Link to post - Posted June 10th 2017 at 10:02 AM
Azamagon
So, as the title asks, how does he work?

Looking at Swordplay, I should be doing 18% of the surrounding dpsers damage as click damage (I have Sal Merman in there, which is why it's 18% instead of 15%). With the legendary gear, i then have a further 400% click damage bonus (5x)

Let's then hypothetically say my DPser deals 100 damage. I place Bush Whacker next to him. 18% of 100 damage is 18. Multiply that by 5x and you get 90 damage.

Now... why does my Bush Whacker then deal ~1116 damage per click? That is about 12,4x times more than what I should be doing. And sometimes this multiplier is a bit higher or a bit lower. Can some explain where these random megboosts come from?

781 Posts
Link to post - Posted June 10th 2017 at 10:46 AM
Last Edited June 10th 2017 at 10:50 AM
Animenut
As far as I can tell, the "Increase BW's click damage" abilities increase HIS damage, not YOUR damage. The difference being the results. Whatever he "absorbs" is not technically HIS damage, but does get used as YOUR click damage. If HIS click damage is 100, but you absorb 1,000,000, then a skill that buffs his damage by 100% wold make your click damage 1,000,200. However, if you go to your trinkets and look at the amulets, it says they boost YOUR click damage, not the click damage of a crusader. So your ultimate click damage with BW is...

((BW's base damage * his own buffs) + (absorbed DPS from Swordplay) + (click damage bonuses from reset achievements)) * trinket multiplicator

So if BW's base damage is 100, you have all his skills, absorb 1,000,000, have all the reset bonuses, and your trinket multiplicator is 1,000%, then...

(100 * 5.5 + 1,000,000 + 25,000) * 11 = 11,281,050

EDIT: Forgot to add in the legendary gear bonus. Whoops. BW's legendary gear buffs YOUR click damage, not his, so just take the resulting number from the above calculation and add in the relevant buff from his gear to that. In your case of having 400% buff, 11,281,050 * 5 = 56405250

130 Posts
Link to post - Posted June 10th 2017 at 11:02 AM
Last Edited June 10th 2017 at 11:03 AM
Azamagon
Well, I know about the differences between HIS vs YOUR click damage, and how his base abilities work there (Thanks for trying to explain it though).

But HOW how could I forget the trinkets?! xD

I see now that my Trinkets boost my clicks damage by 1,140%... which is exactly the boost I was getting (which is why I used that numerical example btw). Wow, I feel really stupid now for forgetting the trinkets. Thanks for pointing that out!

Just a tiny correction though; The formula would be:
(100 * 30 + 1,000,000 + 25,000) * 11 = 11,308,000

The reason it's 30 instead of 5,5 is because all abilities like this are multiplicative (2 * 2 * 2,5 * 3 = 30) rather than additive (1+1+1,5+2 = 5,5 ... which then should've been 6,5 anyway, since he has his base 1 to add too).
Unless his skills are an exception and are additive, that is?

Anywho, thanks! Now I also appreciate the clickdamage trinkets quite a bit more :)

781 Posts
Link to post - Posted June 10th 2017 at 11:15 AM
Animenut
No, they are multiplicative like any other DPS skill lol I just forgot about that since his self-buffs are completely and entirely irrelevant due to how the buffs work. Slipped my mind since HIS max click damage is utterly dwarfed by what he ends up absorbing, so the last time I gave even half a fart's worth of thought to how his self-buffs work was when I started the game lol Thanks for correcting me on both accounts.

46 Posts
Link to post - Posted June 10th 2017 at 7:24 PM
Muljo Stpho
I hadn't really paid attention to it before so the thing that got me to first notice the impact of click trinkets on converted DPS was when I was looking at comparing Karen and Graham after he was released. She copies 1% of her DPS as click damage. He copies 10% of his DPS as click damage (although he's a weaker DPSer so he ends up contributing less click damage than her). But for each of them I was noticing that the actual click damage I was ending up with was different from that fraction of their DPS. Eventually I noticed that the discrepancy matched up with the bonus on my click trinkets.

And yeah, Swordplay is the same thing but for a fraction of adjacent crusaders' DPS. In all of these cases, the converted DPS basically gets to double dip into the trinket bonuses. DPS trinkets apply before the fraction of the DPS gets copied as click damage, and then click trinkets apply to that amount. I haven't been able to follow what's going on with RoboRabbit's capacitor (tooltip mentions a maximum amount that can be stored but it never actually seems to reach any limit) but I assume that it's something similar there as well.

Hmmmm.... Random thought... People dislike Warwick because his clicks are weak. His design is built more around making area-clicked targets take more damage from other sources (team DPS at least, not sure about projectiles, but I've heard that it does NOT boost damage of your next clicks) rather than having the clicks themselves doing that much damage. But what if the ability was tweaked so that the bonus DPS received as a result of his curse is allowed to benefit from click trinkets? (Example: Your team deals 1000 DPS. Curse of Weakness would currently be a 200% bonus, resulting in 3000 DPS. But maybe after the tweak a 100% bonus from click trinkets would change that extra 2000 to 4000, for a grand total of 5000 DPS. Or then again, maybe change it to be more like a poison effect, triggering half a second after the DPS tick to hit them with the bonus damage. So it's not a DPS boost anymore, it's a projectile / Deflect Evil type of attack with offset timing from the main DPS. And then it would be clear in the description that this attack is classified as click damage even though it's automated.) So his design concept wouldn't change much (the actual click damage would still be weak) but the bonus from him would gain a "double dipping" benefit similar to the other clickers.
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